Another speed bump in the AT/SWA combination

[Britpilot]

Do you think it was a valid threat?
Or do you think it was a bluff?

That is the $64,000 question.
I felt it was real enough. What about you?

 

[redflyer65]

No one.
However on one Saturday in July, management walked in and took over the negotiations. From that day forward it was a dog and pony show for the AAI guys, ultimately ending in what we have.
Believe it or don't, it doesn't matter anymore.

Fair enough.

 

[B73av8r]

I think he's talking about everything that happened after the Process Agreement, right about the time SWA presented their idea of a "Fair integration", and our Merger Committee walked, thus setting up the next set of meetings where the pressure started getting applied and consensual went out the window.

The AT merger committee never walked, they were buying and selling the "culture" mantra even before they walked into "negotiations". Two out of the four on the MC and one on the NC bailed in the first transition class - the other two salesmen are now getting their head handed to them for what they "sold" the AT pilots. Let's keep it real - the MC NEVER "walked", or even gave the impression they would, for any reason, they were too busy having dinner and beers with SWA management and the SWAPA NC.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Call me crazy

You're crazy. That was fun.

 

[EngineThunder]

Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have some manager scream at me for a while then buy me a beer after reaching a fair deal than have some manager smile and tell me how wonderful his company is, then steal my seniority while holding a gun to my head.

Consider it Karma for paying all the money to sit right seat at Gulfstream.

 

[funnyman12]

If SW management had it in them to threaten thousands of Airtran jobs, i imagine they will one day threaten the SW employees. It represents their character and what they are capable of doing. The "he'll never do that to me" thing never ends well.

 

[PCL_128]

The AT merger committee never walked, they were buying and selling the "culture" mantra even before they walked into "negotiations". Two out of the four on the MC and one on the NC bailed in the first transition class - the other two salesmen are now getting their head handed to them for what they "sold" the AT pilots. Let's keep it real - the MC NEVER "walked", or even gave the impression they would, for any reason, they were too busy having dinner and beers with SWA management and the SWAPA NC.

This is BS. I'm no cheerleader for the ATN MC, but they most certainly did "walk." They refused the offers from SWAPA, and the result was GK calling a meeting of the entire MEC out in Dallas. The MC never reached a deal until after that meeting, when the MC and a portion of the MEC believed strongly that Gary was threatening the entire pilot group with the loss of their jobs.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yep. I'd rather someone admit to being an adversary rather than pretending to be my buddy and smiling while he sticks a knife in my back, all the while talking about the "Golden Rule."

Get over it PCL. I hope Delta or Fed Ex come calling for you soon enough. Since your Union Career is over, as long as you are at Southwest and you might actually have to fly to make money. Go somewhere where they value you and your input. We don't care to hear it. You and your union screwed up, look in the mirror, you tried to play hardball with the 800 pound gorilla and lost.

:bawling: = PCL

 

[Lear70]

Nevermind.

Dead horse... and you can't make a dead horse drink the water, even after you drag him over to it and shove his nose in it.

 

[SWA/FO]

Dead horse... and you can't make a dead horse drink the water, even after you drag him over to it and shove his nose in it.

I know your talking about PCL and crybabies like him.

 

[B73av8r]

You're kidding right?

This is BS. I'm no cheerleader for the ATN MC, but they most certainly did "walk." They refused the offers from SWAPA, and the result was GK calling a meeting of the entire MEC out in Dallas. The MC never reached a deal until after that meeting, when the MC and a portion of the MEC believed strongly that Gary was threatening the entire pilot group with the loss of their jobs.

They NEVER walked, NEVER. Refused the offers from SWAPA? I thought you knew how negotiations were suppose to operate.

SLI 9 was not presented by SWAPA, they may have had a hand in the screw job, but they never proposed it to the MC, SWA did.

I think you mean the MC did not SIGN a deal until after the meeting, but don't think for a minute those clowns didn't "REACH" a deal before the meeting. They never left Dallas before the meeting, I don't know how you can say they walked away.

 

[HOMER D POE]

hey PCL dude,
you're in the army now...chin up! suck in your gut! chest out!

atten shun!!

at ease soldier..... your delta tao pledge name is "whiny"

 

[MILPILOT17]

Do you think it was a valid threat?
Or do you think it was a bluff?

No question it was a bluff! Don't believe me? Then you don't know or understand what was at stake for GK or MVDV. By the way, SWAPA doesn't play cards very well either! We ALL were "played" and will have to live with the results for years to come. Good luck to all as we are going to need it!

 

[717capt]

This is BS. I'm no cheerleader for the ATN MC, but they most certainly did "walk." They refused the offers from SWAPA, and the result was GK calling a meeting of the entire MEC out in Dallas. The MC never reached a deal until after that meeting, when the MC and a portion of the MEC believed strongly that Gary was threatening the entire pilot group with the loss of their jobs.

Ok I gotta ask. Now I'm taking what you said above as being true since you were part of the mec at the time and were somewhat involved in the process. If as you say, the MC and a portion of the mec believed strongly that Gary was threatening the entire pilot group with the loss of jobs, then why did the mec vote 7-1 against sending out SL9 for ratification?

Did they have time to think about it for the next several weeks after the agreement was reached and thought "Nah he's bluffing" Did they review the hidden infrared camera focused on Gary and realized the color hues suggested he was bluffing. Did they see Gary wink at Mike VdV and thought "ah ha.. we gotcha"! Just curious. What was it? I mean after all you, a then member of the mec, granted not a voting member, but nevertheless a member of the mec comes on a public forum and says that a portion of the mec and mc strongly believed that jobs were threatened, yet they still said no thanks to the offer. Phew.. That's just overwhelming.

I'll tell ya T. You know where the mec and mc messed up? If you're gonna say no. Fine say no, but follow it through to the end. Don't go out again and bring back another agreement that is worse than the first and then vote unanimously to send it out for a vote. That's where we messed up son. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[PCL_128]

I think you mean the MC did not SIGN a deal until after the meeting, but don't think for a minute those clowns didn't "REACH" a deal before the meeting. They never left Dallas before the meeting, I don't know how you can say they walked away.

Your definition of "walked away" is a lot different than mine. Walking away doesn't have to mean leaving the frickin' city. Telling someone that their proposal isn't sufficient and then leaving the room and going back to your caucus room is the equivalent of "walking away" in bargaining.

 

[PCL_128]

Ok I gotta ask. Now I'm taking what you said above as being true since you were part of the mec at the time and were somewhat involved in the process. If as you say, the MC and a portion of the mec believed strongly that Gary was threatening the entire pilot group with the loss of jobs, then why did the mec vote 7-1 against sending out SL9 for ratification?

Did they have time to think about it for the next several weeks after the agreement was reached and thought "Nah he's bluffing" Did they review the hidden infrared camera focused on Gary and realized the color hues suggested he was bluffing. Did they see Gary wink at Mike VdV and thought "ah ha.. we gotcha"! Just curious. What was it? I mean after all you, a then member of the mec, granted not a voting member, but nevertheless a member of the mec comes on a public forum and says that a portion of the mec and mc strongly believed that jobs were threatened, yet they still said no thanks to the offer. Phew.. That's just overwhelming.

I'll tell ya T. You know where the mec and mc messed up? If you're gonna say no. Fine say no, but follow it through to the end. Don't go out again and bring back another agreement that is worse than the first and then vote unanimously to send it out for a vote. That's where we messed up son. Everything else is just semantics.

I wasn't a member of the MEC, either voting or non-voting. You'll have to talk to the people who were.

 

[K-Mart]

That is the $64,000 question.
I felt it was real enough. What about you?

No I think they would have let it go to arbitration and given a recommendation to the arbitrator of what they thought was fair(737 pilots only). I also think they would have only integrated the number of 737 pilots on the AirTran list if went that far. If the arbitrator ruled against what SWA wanted then yes they would have non integrated. Just a guess but yes I think they would have tossed a significant number under the bus. Why the Airtan union didn't realize SWA would use the hammer after looking at history is beyond me.

 

[SWA/FO]

Why don't you walk away from Southwest PCL? Go to law school or something.

 

[Britpilot]

Why the Airtan union didn't realize SWA would use the hammer after looking at history is beyond me.

Yup, me too.

 

[Kharma Police]

Why don't you walk away from Southwest PCL? Go to law school or something.

Piggy has to get his undergrad degree first before he attempts to go to ambulance chaser school or even ALPA safe houses like DAL or FedEx. Assuming he survives his 30s, he will retire number one on your (our) seniority list.