Another Serious Question: NJA or CAL

[Gina]

NJA or back to the bottom at CAL?

I'm 5th yr. NJA @ approx. 100,000 salary.

I've got 20 years of flying left in me.

I've got mouths to feed at home.

Serious as a heart attack.

Tawk amungst yourselves.

P.S. Please respect my privacy.

 

[fly4ever]

Ask yourself how long will it take to get back (if ever) to $100,000 per year at CAL. They probably aren't done taking hits there.

 

[skiav8tor]

Not an easy decision...but then again, are there any in this industry??

My .02...I just left a corporate/charter gig for B6. I think it was right, although I won't know for another 17 years! I do miss the excitement of new and different destinations that 91/135 flying has to offer,and the $$$$, but I also wanted a schedule...hence the move to 121. You seem to have the best this industry has to offer...different destinations, good $$$, and a schedule. Not many of us have all of that. the real question is...are you happy where you are, or is the grass actually greener on the other side...??
the best thing you can do is talk with your family...

Happy Holidays,
Ski

 

[Green]

tough call....talk about rolling the dice

My inclination would be to stay. You are making 100k/year flying airplanes for a stable company, with a large percentage of the pilot group below you. With a family to feed why would you leave? The massive retirement packages are no longer there and assuming you eventually upgrade at Cal you wouldn't be making a whole lot more than you are now. Factoring in the lost wages while you wait to break 100 again you would probably lose money in the deal.

The biggest factor that would scare me off would be the rampant merger talk that is surrounding CAL. That would be a tough pill to swallow if you gave up the 100k in order to make 30k on probation, only to get furloughed as you merged with UAL or airline xyz. I don't know if you have any airline experience but it definitely is not the glamorous job it used to be. Sure there are some great times, good trips, and a little bit of cachet left but things at NJA don't look so bad either. Good luck with the call....

 

[COpilot]

I'm 18 yrs at CO, around #2200. Flying big airplanes is cool, but;

I'd say stay at NJA, or take FedEx / UPS.

 

[Lake Alice]

Obviously Cal.

Think about the future. Knowing when and where you will be going. When/what time you will going to/from work. Trip trades, bidding days on an off, dropping trips, true seniority. NJA has some perks like good hotels and catering but 7 on, 7 off sucks. NJA is perceived stability only. The fact that BK owns NJA means very little.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

WOW!! you make 100K as a 5th year? That's what you'd be making at UPS under our current contract. Screw this outdated paradigm that one airline is better than another. If you are happy at NJA, you would be crazy to give it up for a legacy carrier. Count your blessings and minimize the risk.

 

[Airmike767]

Anew hire today at CAL will be close to 50% in five years.
Check the current pay scales and while CAL faces some serious debt refinancing in the next two years, it is also well positioned for the future.

Hourly Pay Rates Effective 4/1/2005

​

Captains​

First Officers​

​

Widebody​

Large
Narrowbody​

Small
Narrowbody​

Widebody​

Large
Narrowbody​

Small
Narrowbody​

Year 1

$29.97​

$29.97​

$29.97​

$29.97​

$29.97​

$29.97​

Year 2

$172.77​

$149.57​

$131.54​

$71.64​

$62.13​

$54.74​

Year 3

$174.06​

$150.89​

$132.81​

$84.26​

$73.14​

$64.45​

Year 4

$175.35​

$152.20​

$134.06​

$95.32​

$82.82​

$73.03​

Year 5

$176.63​

$153.52​

$135.33​

$104.77​

$91.14​

$80.40​

Year 6

$177.93​

$154.84​

$136.60​

$114.37​

$99.59​

$87.91​

Year 7

$179.21​

$156.16​

$137.85​

$116.96​

$101.99​

$90.09​

Year 8

$180.51​

$157.48​

$139.12​

$119.60​

$104.40​

$92.28​

Year 9

$181.79​

$158.80​

$140.38​

$121.80​

$106.45​

$94.15​

Year 10

$183.07​

$160.13​

$141.63​

$124.48​

$108.92​

$96.40​

Year 11

$184.37​

$161.44​

$142.91​

$125.81​

$110.21​

$97.61​

Year 12

$185.65​

$162.76​

$144.17​

$126.68​

$111.11​

$98.47​

Hourly Pay Rates Effective 7/1/2007

​

Captains​

First Officers​

​

Widebody​

Large
Narrowbody​

Small
Narrowbody​

Widebody​

Large
Narrowbody​

Small
Narrowbody​

Year 1

$30.57​

$30.57​

$30.57​

$30.57​

$30.57​

$30.57​

Year 2

$176.23​

$152.56​

$134.17​

$73.07​

$63.37​

$55.84​

Year 3

$177.55​

$153.91​

$135.46​

$85.94​

$74.60​

$65.74​

Year 4

$178.86​

$155.24​

$136.74​

$97.22​

$84.48​

$74.49​

Year 5

$180.17​

$156.59​

$138.04​

$106.87​

$92.96​

$82.01​

Year 6

$181.49​

$157.94​

$139.33​

$116.65​

$101.58​

$89.67​

Year 7

$182.80​

$159.29​

$140.61​

$119.30​

$104.03​

$91.89​

Year 8

$184.12​

$160.63​

$141.90​

$121.99​

$106.49​

$94.13​

Year 9

$185.43​

$161.97​

$143.18​

$124.24​

$108.58​

$96.03​

Year 10

$186.74​

$163.33​

$144.47​

$126.97​

$111.10​

$98.33​

Year 11

$188.06​

$164.67​

$145.77​

$128.33​

$112.42​

$99.57​

Year 12

$189.37​

$166.01​

$147.05​

$129.22​

$113.34​

$100.44​

​

New hires are holding B756 in EWR at the present. There is also the B Plan and other compensation to consider. Good Luck and best wishes for Christmas!

 

[Airmike767]

Sorry this is pretty hard to read. Hope you can figure it out!

 

[cgmason1]

That is a tough choice.
I used to be at NJA and am now at JB and the job and Mgt is allot better.
That being said I dont like to commute(who does) and the perks at NJA-crew food, hotel/FF points, 7/7 were nice.
As I understand it the implementation of 91K has also improved QOL on the road.

That being said I would do it all over again.

But thats just me.

Happy Festivus Everyone!

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[Airmike767]

Chuck, best wishes to Al Spain, worked for him in Guam!
Airmike767

 

[Lake Alice]

The NJA 100k is based on a 90K base with overtime that cannot be counted on. The flying was diverse but like most thing its not all that glamorous. Fly to some exotic destination, get your gas and pax, leave. I too made the jump from frac to 121 and its the best descision I ever made. As Chuck said commuting does suck but if you live at base or don't mind the commute then take the plunge.
Every company is a gamble right now, NJA is no different. I would be more worried with that management than with any merger talks at Cal.

 

[sgu]

I do not know much about NJA other than what has been posted here but if you are making the $$$ to support your family and live where you want then the only question is if you want to trade that in for flying bigger airplanes and int'l destinations?
I would stay at NJA. Based on the current airline situation and questions looming in the future versus your present income and size,sement of industry and reputation of your current employer. Good luck w/ your decision.

 

[320AV8R]

Do what you need to do in order to be able to sleep at night, and not worry about it.

In this industry, you're not going to know if you made the right decision until after you're retired.

320AV8R

 

[Mach92]

The NJA 100k is based on a 90K base with overtime that cannot be counted on. The flying was diverse but like most thing its not all that glamorous. Fly to some exotic destination, get your gas and pax, leave. I too made the jump from frac to 121 and its the best descision I ever made. As Chuck said commuting does suck but if you live at base or don't mind the commute then take the plunge.
Every company is a gamble right now, NJA is no different. I would be more worried with that management than with any merger talks at Cal.

My man don't be tossing stones now, you to used to work at NJA. Everyone is happy YOUR happy at JB. Going to CAL is nothing but a gamble. To make up that 100K would take at least 7 years.

PS: let me know when you get tired of going JFK/LGB/BUR/SEA/SAN ETC
You mention glamorous........ isn't it the same job but a bigger plane?

 

[Gina]

thanks

Thanks for all the sincere posts!

I agree with all that Lake Alice said including that "7&7 sucks" It is tough being gone 7 days in a row. Unfortionatly I haven't found a job where I don't have to work a certain amount each month. I'm the kind of individual who would rather just get it over with as soon as possible.

The good part about it is, each time I get home it's a mini vacation. 7 days to do whatever I like, free from anything with wings. I make only 2 drives to and from the airport a month. I don't non-rev on my off days.

I actually prefer 7&7 relative to an airline reserve schedule. It's a decent number of days off per month. As an airline line holder, I'd probably need some seniority, and I'd have to put some thought and effort into bidding a line to get my minimum monthly flight time with that many days off??? Please feel free to tell me why your dog's better than mine. I think I've made up my mind to stay, but I find these posts very helpful with my decision process.

Thanks for posting the payscale. With regards to the CAL pay: How would I estimate career earnings there? Specifically, ballpark upgrade times and ball park hrs/ month. Is 80 a good average? Is widebody captain attainable withinin 20 yrs?

Thanks again and Happy Quanza

 

[GroundHog]

Continental Pay Scale

Gina,
Here's a link to the Continental Payscale.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/continental-200502247.htm

 

[GogglesPisano]

Is starting over at $27,000/yr, with no benefits for 6 months, at the bottom of a legacy carrier rumored to be merging with another, really putting your family first?

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Anew hire today at CAL will be close to 50% in five years.
Check the current pay scales and while CAL faces some serious debt refinancing in the next two years, it is also well positioned for the future.

Yeah right! When the age 60 thing gets changed you will not be 50% for quite a lot longer than that. And that's assuming there is not a merger. Airmike--you seem to believe in CAL. That's great and I hope the best for you. I just respectfully disagree with the hype. Merry Xmas and Happy Festivus.

 

[charley varrick]

If you are senior to me, then you definitely must choose Continental! Otherwise, if you really want to fly heavy iron, try to get hired by FedEx or UPS. Unless you plan on living in a junior Continental domicile, going there would be a lateral move, at best. Lots of downward pressure on airline wages still coming in the next few years.

Of course, this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it . . . . Good luck on your decision.