Another Serious Question: NJA or CAL

[AV80R]

”Is starting over at $27,000/yr, with no benefits for 6 months, at the bottom of a legacy carrier rumored to be merging with another, really putting your family first?”

Very good point!

Gina - when (not if) CAL merges with another airline, how will that affect your seniority - which obviously you and your family will rely on for pay and quality of life purposes? You don't know? Exactly!

Also, you said you have 20 years left? Well, if NJA stands for Netjets, it’s a 135 outfit correct? Therefore there’s no 60 rule, so why do you say you have 20 years left? I’m sure I’m misunderstanding your calculation. So maybe you should look into the possibility of working until 65 at CAL (will probably happen within the next 20 years wouldn’t you say) and at least 65 at Netjets and then look at the numbers? Good luck with you decision but I vote for your current job mainly because you have a family and since I believe that CAL will be merging with another airline in the near future all the bets re: CAL are off. Either way good luck or better yet, go FedEx or UPS!

 

[Phrogs4ever]

For me, no brainer...

I left a Frac a year and a half ago for CAL and there has never been a day where I doubted it was the right move to make. Might have been a little more difficult if I were at NJ, but I still would have gone to CAL. The type of flying is night and day. I did not "enjoy" the work that had to get done for an average flight on the BeechJet. I did not enjoy the whole papers/ice/coffee cycle. I did not enjoy loading bags, golf clubs, skis on a scorching ramp just to wipe down the sweat to give a safety brief. I did not enjoy cleaning up after adults. I did not enjoy having to pack for a week and doing laundry at hotels during my rest time. I did not enjoy laying over with one other crew member, who may or may not be a jerk/slam-clicker/fogie/etc. I have an MBA, and every time I had to pull a pot full of s**t out the lav to get serviced I had to ask myself wtf am I doing here. Customer service is universal, but flying for a frac is not what I wanted to do the rest of my career. That said, I flew with a lot of great people/pilots and had fun once the engines were started. But it was the peripheral stuff that made it just a job.

About CAL, I was fortunate to hired at the beginning of the hiring wave. Two months reserve in EWR, two months reserve in IAH, and a line holder ever since. I moved to Houston right after training and life has been good. Not Shangri-La, but better than before. I could care less about all the talk of mergers. That would prevent anyone from ever considering flying for a major airline, and recently, even some of the LCCs. I could care less about age 65, if it happens it happens. Again, I made my decision based on the facts at that time, not what someone else said might happen. Yes, there is still a lot retirements over the next five years and CAL is receiving 65 new aircraft over the next three years. Both of which could go up, could go down. All I know is I enjoy going to work, and there are 64 more pilots junior to me every month.

Just a few more points:
-First year I grossed over $38,000. Not great, but more than the $27,000 someone else mentioned. On pace to gross $72,000 this year.
-My family was never without medical coverage, first six months just came from a supplemental insurer.
-Fourth year 757 FO will make over $100,000, based on 2006 pay rates. Incremental step in Aug 2007, contract up in 2008. Based on the debacle of POS '02 and some new union leadership, the contract can only improve.

Time will tell the true stability of a Frac career. When I left I wasn't sold on the long term potential. Remember RTA? Like I said before, I made what I thought was the best decision for my family based on the situation at that time. Of course, time will tell.

 

[jbDC9]

Regarding last year's post about taking so many (20-22?) years to hold a summer vacation as a IAH CA; that number is way off.

I'm at 9 years here, still a IAH 737 FO; holding 3 day trips, can hold day turns, all holidays/weekends off if I want. I'm moving to IAH 737 CA in Feb, and imagine my surprise that during vacation bidding I was awarded a week in late July(Oshkosh) as a bottom feeder captain. I've heard the rumors that summer vac weeks are hard to get as a junior guy... I dunno, maybe I just got lucky, but I was pretty happy to get some summer vacation weeks awarded as a junior capt.

As for the concessionary Contract '02; yup, it still sucks(I voted no). I just don't understand why the new guys get thrown under the bus when it comes to first year pay and bennies, which truly suck a$$. But I guess that just doesn't matter as long as the senior dudes get theirs...

 

[Palomino]

Ask the CAL guys how much better their new contract is from Contract '97? Oh that's right. Contract 04' was a concessionary one. CAL guys talk about how great CAL is, but that's speculating on the current situation. Any hiccup and that all changes.

If CAL is so wonderful why are there so many COEX guy who passed the opportunity to go to CAL?

if CoEx'rs make different choices i don't care. if they just hate CAL because it's the 'little brother/big brother' mentality then i still don't care.

i'm having fun at CAL and sucking it up with the first year pay. should i have waited until first year pay went up 20% and miss out on seniority? no thanks. i made the leap and hopefully it will work out well.

CAL is a good place. beats the crap out of a lot of places to work. and that includes CoEx. i had a blast at CoEx, but i'm glad to be at CAL. it's not for everyone, but it fits me well.

 

[Gina]

"so its been a year"

“Ok, so its been a year, everyone still feel the same??” This was post number 67. A couple of the posters after 67 seem to have missed this detail.

I'm glad I stayed at Nutjets. The conditions are what you make of them. For the most part, the negative aspects of the fractional job mentioned by others are ALL TRUE, with one exception: My plane's lav is serviced externally just like an airliner’s. It's the $5 hole. If the ramper gets a blue shower and matching turd necklace, it becomes a $20.00 hole. I never touch the blue water.

Was my decision based only on money? No, was about a balance of money and Q.O.L. Time off the job, free and clear of any thoughts of things with wings, was the clincher.
When I am home for 7 days in a row I never have to consider schedule, commuting options, or rushing for anything. Laundry gets done when it gets done. I can devote my full attention to my kids.

The majority of the flying I do is daytime.

My salary estimate turned out to be a bit conservative. I made over $110k this year, excluding my retro/bonus check. I got the $7500 match on the 401k and I even drained my $400 uniform account. I spent about $50.00 in co-pay for medical, dental, vision, and Rx for my family.

I like my 3 weeks of vacation, which are three 21-day breaks/yr. on the 7&7 schedule. I discovered a way to get 49 days off in a row with 2 vacation slots while on 7&7. I vacation for free with my Hilton points and my airline miles. My kid’s college fund is on track, my retirement investments are on track to retire at 60. (AV80R, you are right, I could work past 60, but I’d rather not)


Shameless plug: THANK-YOU 1108

Phogs4ever: I know an individual who went to CAL a week before the new NJA contract. He wouldn't have gone had he known about the new contract. He is not happy at CAL. I’m not discounting your opinion, (your post was spot on) I’m just pointing out that ironically, the opposite opinion exists out there too.

BTW, flying for NJA has its fun times too.

Is NJA a sure thing? Of course not. As many have pointed out, we will all know for sure when we retire. Uncle Warren once loved USAir too.

Is my dog better than yours? No. That’s not the point. I’m green with envy after reading tailspin’s post. The point is that I had to make a quick decision a year ago. I still think it was the right decision for ME, with my seniority at NJA. I have been sleeping really well at night.

Thanks again to everyone who posted sincere opinions.

A prosperous '07 for all.

 

[RideandDrive]

I left Jetblue for NJA a while ago. Now CAL I'm sure is a much better airline than Jetblue so the comparison isn't entirely valid.

7 and 7 to me is the best schedule in the world. I used to fly 16 day trips for Polar so 7 days is not a long time in my world.

No commuting is the other thing I love.

There is more to do, but I only have two speeds...go and stop so I tend not to wear myself out on the road. No one asks you to rush around here at NJA.

 

[On Your Six]

I left Jetblue for NJA a while ago. Now CAL I'm sure is a much better airline than Jetblue so the comparison isn't entirely valid.

7 and 7 to me is the best schedule in the world. I used to fly 16 day trips for Polar so 7 days is not a long time in my world.

No commuting is the other thing I love.

There is more to do, but I only have two speeds...go and stop so I tend not to wear myself out on the road. No one asks you to rush around here at NJA.

I think you will hear more people at Jetblue doing the same in the near future. I know two people (one Bus driver and one EMB driver) seriously thinking about returning to NJA.

 

[AV80R]

Gina - congratulations on finding out what's best for you! The only thing that really matters is that you're happy and it sounds like you are.

I see so many people who seem to be unhappy with their lives &/or jobs - I always think of some of my friends who'd kill to be in the "complainer's" shoes. Life ain't fair but if you try your best and focus on what's important to you and your family there’s always a way to achieve happiness even in our uncertain profession.

Again, congrats to you Gina!