Another Serious Question: NJA or CAL

[Dan Roman]

I think it boils down to if you like the frac flying and the lifestyle why leave? ANY airline is a gamble. It's safe to say CO is NOT safer than Net Jets. Also, I would be a little wary of the people who think "THEIR" airline is the best deal. It's human nature to be excited about a new job, but after a few years reality sets in. A job can be great for one person who is already there and established, but someone else can go there and have a terrible deal, either less senior and paying for it or just not a good fit for that airlines domicles or culture.
It's a personal decision, put your family first and go with what you want to do. As far as the future pay goes, it's probably a safe bet that whatever UAL, DAL, NWA end up with pay and retirement wise, will be what all the Legacies will be paying.

 

[taloft]

Given that CAL thinks XJet pilots are overpaid and forcing their furloughs, I'd say stick with Net.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

It's a personal decision, put your family first and go with what you want to do. As far as the future pay goes, it's probably a safe bet that whatever UAL, DAL, NWA end up with pay and retirement wise, will be what all the Legacies will be paying.

I see and what NWA, DAL, UAL end up with will determine the what legacies are paid from here to eternity? Come on anything is possible but many believe our industry has or is soon to be bottomed out. This is a cyclical Industry and I'm confident that for what ever legacies are left standing at some point the pay and benefits will trend upward again, it has in the past and I'm confident it will again in the future. How long will it take to get back to old UAL and DAL pay? Probably several years like ten or maybe more but never say never in this business. While this cycle is like no other in the past within the airline industry doesn't mean it will forever be this way. It may take a long time to get back to the glory days of pre 9/11 it's certainly possible to start moving back in the right direction. One legacy will negotiate an upward contract and each next carrier will take it a step forward it's called pattern bargaining. That is what we have now only in the wrong direction. This is what occurred after the concessionary contracts of the late 70's and early 80's.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Here is something else to ponder. What is the retirement at NJET? This is what airline pilot pay says 401k match: 50c/$1 up to 15%.

At CAL we now have a B fund that pays 12.75% of your W2 earnings by 2007. That is your money in your own investment account (can't be taken away like "A" plans or defined benefit plans) and is on top of your regular earnings. Not a 401k match but a 100% company paid plan. Based on the above formula my 2005 B plan company contributions would have been $24,225. I think that beats NJets 401K retirement plan, something else to consider.

 

[Dan Roman]

Good point CAL and your right, it WILL cycle back up. The big question is when? Just to be clear, I'm not attacking CO. I think you have morphed into a very good airline. I'm with Hawaiian and both our airlines were at the bottom end of the scale in the 90's and are now near the top. My point is just what you said. It's cyclical. Flying for an airline is a wild ride and I've loved it, but our friend here should be aware that it is a wild ride that changes dramaticly from decade to decade and be aware, there are no sure bets in this game! I think I've a got the best job in the world but that's because I like living in Hawaii and I like Hawaiian, through all our ups and downs I've been able to live on the North Shore, surf and raise a family, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone.
I can certainly see how someone would be hard pressed to give up flying a variety of brand new business jets, week on week off, and live were you want and never have to non rev!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

My point is just what you said. It's cyclical. Flying for an airline is a wild ride and I've loved it, but our friend here should be aware that it is a wild ride that changes dramaticly from decade to decade and be aware, there are no sure bets in this game!

Nicely stated I agree 100%.

 

[Floyd94]

Ok, so its been a year, everyone still feel the same??

 

[skiandsurf]

Ok, so its been a year, everyone still feel the same??

This fractional flying is too much work.
Day 1....745am airline from LAX to LAS. Fly 2 pax to SNA. Visit with my mom (onboard the plane) for 2 hrs. Fly 1 guy to OAK. Fly empty to LAX. 13 hr duty. 3 flights. 3 pax. No catering. 4 hrs overtime.

Day 2...Free breakfast at LAX Hilton. 2pm airline flight to SEA. Done.
Day 3...Free breakfast at SEA Embasy Suites. Ferry plane to ICT. Airline to DFW then on to AUS. (American Airlines gave me a free first class upgrade, thank you very much).
Day 4...Free breakfast at AUS Hilton. Airline to PSP via DEN.
Day 5...ferry plane from PSP to LAX. 9am check in time, released at 1130am. Home by 1230.

I have jury duty on monday, so I am off the remainder of the trip.
5 days. 3 pax. 1 suitcase. No catering. Earliest check-in of 745am. 6 hrs overtime. 6 airline flights (2 in first class).

Note: this is not the norm from my experience, but I will take it.

 

[Captain Overs]

Ask the CAL guys how much better their new contract is from Contract '97? Oh that's right. Contract 04' was a concessionary one. CAL guys talk about how great CAL is, but that's speculating on the current situation. Any hiccup and that all changes.

If CAL is so wonderful why are there so many COEX guy who passed the opportunity to go to CAL?

 

[talespin]

Ask the CAL guys how much better their new contract is from Contract '97? Oh that's right. Contract 04' was a concessionary one. CAL guys talk about how great CAL is, but that's speculating on the current situation. Any hiccup and that all changes.

If CAL is so wonderful why are there so many COEX guy who passed the opportunity to go to CAL?

I suspect because they either can't get the interview or they didn't make it through it.

Gina I've been at CAL 2 yrs and I'm on track to make 90 this year. Granted I've been flying a lot but home almost every night/day. Had to move my family to Guam to do it and fly a lot of three man trips, some on the backside of the clock. Can't speak for the stateside schedules but over here there pretty good minus the new PBS. You know what they say about turning 60 and then you'll know if you made the right choice. It's all about you and your family and whats best for them. For us it's been a great adventure and experience of a life time. I left flying regional's bidding number 15 to start over at the bottom yanking gear, but I can honestly say I made the right choice. Good Luck