Another Serious Question: NJA or CAL

[NJA bound]

Great post FLYLOW22

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Is starting over at $27,000/yr, with no benefits for 6 months, at the bottom of a legacy carrier rumored to be merging with another, really putting your family first?

That all depends on your situation. I had a similar decision to make and I chose CAL. I agonized over that decision for weeks because I was offered a job with a great corporate company with a great salary. I'm furloughed from two major airlines so you can imagine my concern but looking back it was the best decision I have ever made. I know more than anyone that it can all turn around tomorrow but based on what's happening right now I feel pretty comfortable CAL is positioning itself for the future. This is a great time to get on with CAL and "if" things work out than it was the best decision I could have made for my family. If not than I will find somewhere else to fly until one of the three call me back. LOL


Good Luck on your decision, it's not easy

 

[Going2Baja]

Things change over time sure but right now NJA has one of the most enviable business models not only as compared to the aviation industry but to Corporate America as a whole. You ought to see one of these Owner contracts. NJA charges 3.75% more each year regardless of whether it's needed or not. If fuel goes up, they charge. If labor expense goes up (and it did), they charge. If anything goes up they simply pass along the cost to the Owner who is happy to pay it in exchange for the product they are paying for... on demand transport.

The Majors should take a look at this. I think the R/T price to HNL and Cabo from LAX has stayed the same for 20 years. If the pax can't afford it take the BUS!!

 

[On Your Six]

I'd stay with NJA. You are already making $100K and it will increase from here. You have 2 weeks off per month and no commuting. In a few years bid the Falcon and then enjoy the ride... CO is great but I would stick with NJA if I were you. Let us know what you choose.

 

[Dan Roman]

Go with the job that provides the quality of life you prefer the most. As far as security. TWA and Pan AM were VERY secure in the 60's. Braniff was THE most profitable airline of the 70's. In the 80's USAir and Piedmont were two of the best jobs out there. UAL sure looked good in the 90's.
Anything can happen to CO from what I've read it appears they could have a cash flow/debt problem in the future. There are no "strong" legacy carriers even though CO appears stronger than the others, what's going to happen if UAL, DAL, NWA USAir succesfully reorganize and actually become profitable carriers? All of a sudden CO could be left out in the cold.
I would look long and hard at leaving a job in my hometown that is week on week off and pays 100,000 a year. By the time you got to that pay scale at CO, what would you be making at net jets?

 

[Lake Alice]

I still say go 121.

As with the uncertainty of joining a legacy carrier lets not forget the frac model in unproven. We could easily debate the merits of that statement for hours.
In the short term, as a captain, you will make more with NJA than Cal but long term its a no brainer. Also, some other factors to consider are items like trip trades, dropping trips, sleep schedules, work schedules. It all plays a key role in a descision. Its not just about the money. As someone mentioned earlier you have to look into your future to see if the work you will do at NJA is something you want to do for the rest of your career, haulin bags, catering etc.
On the other hand, as a commuter, it does suck. If your commute is easy or live at base then again I say a no brainer. 7 and 7 is great but hold a line and you will easily have more time off with a hole helluva lot more flexibility. Heck, this month on reserve I swapped all my days around and got the weekends off I wanted. Something I could never have done at NJA. 7 and 7 is set in stone. I want to be around for specific days or occasions that I cant plan for months in advance on a 7 and 7. The QOL with the 121 schedule is huge.

On your six, let me know if you bid the Falcon in a couple of years. I would love to know how it goes with all the d!ck heads in that fleet.

 

[whymeworry?]

Making a decision on whether to go to CAL based on merger speculation is, quite frankly, a bit ridiculous. If I had a nickel for all the merger rumors and "facts" over the years I'd be a rich man. I know what the CAL CFO said about a UAL merger... and if you read too far into it you will believe there is indeed a merger coming. The reality is EVERY AIRLINE is just as exposed to a merger. CAL will only merge IF and WHEN industry consolidation take place. Can you honestly say NJA will NEVER face consolidation? Every industry and every company will eventually face consolidation.

In the meantime, CAL will add 50% growth over the next 10 years PLUS 1500 pilot retirements. I can't think of a better place to be than a legacy that has assured retirements AND expected growth.

Your decision to go to CAL, or not, should be based on your affinity for the NJA job and lifestyle. Corporate can be just as rewarding as airline flying if on the right equipment. If you believe your future will continue to be rewarding at NJA, and your job will be secure, then you have a lot to contemplate. But I certainly would not base my decision on merger/ age 60 speculation.... because it's just that: SPECULATION.

If mainline industry consolidation happens, then all airline pilots will face havoc. Just the same, the fractionals, and even the cargo carriers, could face the same fate (consolidation) at some point in the next 30 years. Nothing is assured in this business.

 

[Archie Bunker]

What the Delta guy probably doesn't know is that every day at EJA is basically just like an airline Reserve day.

Even worse, it is often like a reserve day where you fly somewhere, then sit "ready reserve" at your destination airport for the rest of your duty period.
The difference is that there is no "hard line" waiting for you to "get off reserve". This is how it will be for good.

You may fly, you may sit, you may just be at the hotel, but you are still at the mercy of the Wheel in the Sky. Delta guy, your longest extended duty is probably pretty much par for the course at most fractionals.

Ty,

Maybe I just don't understand how it works at NJA. Are you telling me that you're on call 30 days a month at NJA? I thought they had a 7 on, 7 off schedule? Even if they are standing reserve on a day by day basis, they are doing it from their hometown. That would be a huge benefit for me. At Delta, I'm on call 18 days a month as a reserve puke. Most of the time I have to commute to my domicile the day prior so that I can be in position to stand my first reserve day on short call. So I lose another 4-5 days there just commuting.

At least when NJA flys you somewhere and you are standby, they put you up in a Hilton. At Delta, you're paying for a commuter hotel room (read: dump), or you're in some crackhouse/flophouse crashpad for which you pay a few hundred a month.

As for duty day......we stand short call for a 12 hour period, and I can't count the number of times I've been called out at the last minute to deadhead someplace. In the meantime, while I'm at my domicile standing reserve, I'm on my own coin for everything.

All in all, if I were Gina, I would not even think of leaving a secure, decent paying flying job ($100K right now), living where I want to live, and nowhere to go but up the seniority list. IMHO, going to CO now is a risky move at best with all the instability of the passenger airline industry.

 

[LAZYB]

All in all, if I were Gina, I would not even think of leaving a secure, decent paying flying job ($100K right now), living where I want to live, and nowhere to go but up the seniority list. IMHO, going to CO now is a risky move at best with all the instability of the passenger airline industry.

If you're not making at least the same money, starting at an airline, and "projecting" when you'll get even with future salary raises...

"You're betting on the come". Welcome to Vegas high roller! Do you feel lucky?

:beer:

 

[FLYLOW22]

It's a tough choice. Can't say that we helped her either. Lots of maybe, woulda, coulda, shouldas in this biz.

Right now I can say that if I were recalled back to my old company or had a job offer from one of the 121 darlings I would really be sitting around contemplating my decision.


This contract got ratified over here and it put a whole new perspective on the industry for me.

Where can you turn 1 week of vacation into 3 as a junior F/O? NetJets.