Another article about DL's CFO meeting with NWA MEC

[JoeMerchant]

You proved the point of the RJDC----you wanted to keep your vacation, and fly larger planes, without getting hired somewhere else like the rest of us. Hope you had fun in Myrtle Beach........

Bye Bye--General Lee

I kept my vacation.....and I don't really care what size airplane I fly.....I just wish my ATR wasn't going away....That is a Delta decision however and I guess they don't realize that oil is at 135 dollars a barrel....

As far as vacation....it wasn't Myrtle Beach....I took the boat to the Keys and some guy in Key West told me to tell you that the test came back negative......

 

[General Lee]

I kept my vacation.....and I don't really care what size airplane I fly.....I just wish my ATR wasn't going away....That is a Delta decision however and I guess they don't realize that oil is at 135 dollars a barrel....

As far as vacation....it wasn't Myrtle Beach....I took the boat to the Keys and some guy in Key West told me to tell you that the test came back negative......

I think we should bring back Dash-7s and have mainline pilots fly them. You can dump the lavs. And, do you hang out in The Keys a lot? Do you live in Midtown in ATL? Was the guy on your boat named Capt Jack? Did he make you clean the DECK? Did you play "pirate" instead of pilot for 3 weeks? You dirty, dirty man.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think we should bring back Dash-7s and have mainline pilots fly them.
Bye Bye---General Lee

.....now that would be funny.....

 

[Superpilot92]

another lame thread, surprise surprise!! We arent enemies guys, wake up!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

another lame thread, surprise surprise!! We arent enemies guys, wake up!!

We aren't enemies....but we are competitors....and we aren't on the same team...Time for ALPA to "wake up"...If we have to compete with one another....we won't be on the same team.....

 

[Superpilot92]

We aren't enemies....but we are competitors....and we aren't on the same team...Time for ALPA to "wake up"...If we have to compete with one another....we won't be on the same team.....

The comment was directed at the NWA/DAL guys not you and GL flirting.:erm:

 

[JoeMerchant]

The comment was directed at the NWA/DAL guys not you and GL flirting.:erm:

The comment SHOULD be directed at EVERYONE...but the fact is we are a loose association of independent contractors with no seniority transportability, no national standards,and no unity....I'm surprised there are people like you trying to use Rodney King speeches to unify a group that is in civil war.....We created this mess....

 

[Superpilot92]

The comment SHOULD be directed at EVERYONE...but the fact is we are a loose association of independent contractors with no seniority transportability, no national standards,and no unity....I'm surprised there are people like you trying to use Rodney King speeches to unify a group that is in civil war.....We created this mess....

When you say "civil war" is that FI world war or in reality? Just because a few hot heads on here run their mouths doesnt mean that the 2 groups are at "war". In fact most guys i know here and fly with are very civil and look forward to hammering this thing out so we can move forward as a single company. Believe it or not, we may not see eye to eye on the SLI but we are by no means at "war" even though FI might make it look that way.

 

[JoeMerchant]

When you say "civil war" is that FI world war or in reality? Just because a few hot heads on here run their mouths doesnt mean that the 2 groups are at "war". In fact most guys i know here and fly with are very civil and look forward to hammering this thing out so we can move forward as a single company. Believe it or not, we may not see eye to eye on the SLI but we are by no means at "war" even though FI might make it look that way.

Have you read the ALPA national message boards? This merger is going to go just like all the rest....Ugly.....Using "career expectations" as a method of integration is recipe for failure.....

Seniority has been made too important....and this will end up just like the other integrations....Despite the cheers from the Herndon cheerleading section.....

 

[FDJ2]

When the airplanes are parked BECAUSE OF DAL's SCOPE CLAUSE? YES. YOU BETCHA.

YES. If they are allowed to park them with NO PENALTY due to DALPA's scope language. Honestly, do you think NWA guys should be furloughed because your scope clause allows them to be parked vs NWA scope clause that penalizes NWA tremendously for parking them beyond a certain point?

You guys ALWAYS ignore this point.

You still have your scope language.


If they park those DC-9s, it will be because your scope language allowed it, not DALPA's.

 

[FDJ2]

If the -9s are parked due to the merger, why should ANY NWA guys get furloughed if it happens due to the scope language DALPA negotiated.
Schwanker

Schwanker, the merger hasn't changed NWA scope language. The last time I checked those DC-9s were still a part of the NWA fleet and covered by NWA scope.

If they are parked it will be because they are too costly to operate and they'll be parked in accordance with NALPA's scope language.

Let's face it. It's a 35 year old aircraft. You don't see too many 707s flying part 121 do you?

 

[FDJ2]

The new contract will cover any furloughs at the "combined" airline. KEY WORD, hint, hint "combined".
I guess General Lee and FJ aren't totally up to date with what may be going on. Not surprising.

Do we have a combined contract?

Until we do, you still have your scope language to protect you.

If DC-9s are parked, it will be inaccordance with the NWA PWA.

Once we have a joint contract and it goes into effect, we'll have our (DALPA/NAPLA) scope language to protect all of us.

 

[DTW320]

Keep the scope, and you can keep your pay scales too.

Sign me up! I'll gladly keep my payrate vs selling more scope for a 10% raise.

 

[TinGoose1]

Wouldn't it be poetic justice if Delta put NWA guys on some sort of "blue book" pay scale? Restricted their careers to narrow body aircraft?

-TG

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Ain't gonna happen. Btw dumbass only about 1600 are premerger. That leaves 3600 or so post merger that had nothing to do with the Roberts award(other than listening to how they both got screwed) which means it was fair. Imho, it was a pretty fair award except for the length. I would gladly accept an award like that with doh and fences.

Wouldn't it be poetic justice if Delta put NWA guys on some sort of "blue book" pay scale? Restricted their careers to narrow body aircraft?

-TG

 

[Diesel-9]

deleted

 

[Diesel-9]

Exactly, except for the length which should have been 5-7 years in my opinion, it was the best merger in comparison to all others. A small narrow body vs International airline. Most guys I know on their side agree. Think they are senior and hold many if not the majority of W/B Capt jobs. WAY above their expectations when hired into the profession. After seeing what DAL proposed and how it looked 5, 10, and 15 years down the road for NWA folks, would take Roberts Award now with a 5-7 year fence and go out and rule the world together.

 

[FDJ2]

After seeing what DAL proposed and how it looked 5, 10, and 15 years down the road for NWA folks, would take Roberts Award now with a 5-7 year fence and go out and rule the world together.

There won't be another Roberts award. It is widely seen as a failed award, which has resulted in 2 decades of infighting at NALPA and 2 dozen follow on arbitrations.

ALPA merger policy dumped maintaining DOH with conditions and restrictions, with good reason, after the Roberts Award.

The award will in all likelihhod take a snap shot of the pilot groups at some point in time prior to the award, do a head count by categories and integrate via comparable positions brought to the table. Differences in the number of wide bodied aircraft, international flying and compensation will be addressed.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2: Yep.

 

[General Lee]

There won't be another Roberts award. It is widely seen as a failed award, which has resulted in 2 decades of infighting at NALPA and 2 dozen follow on arbitrations.

ALPA merger policy dumped maintaining DOH with conditions and restrictions, with good reason, after the Roberts Award.

The award will in all likelihhod take a snap shot of the pilot groups at some point in time prior to the award, do a head count by categories and integrate via comparable positions brought to the table. Differences in the number of wide bodied aircraft, international flying and compensation will be addressed.

What? You want to be FAIR? Huh? No way. What you propose is FAIR, and they don't want that. Nope. Don't forget their large chunk of retirements (that will happen within the next 5 year sometime), and the 787s (which will come within the next five years sometime). Just because we have a large mass retirement after that, shouldn't mean squat too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[clippyrip]

Keep repeating yourselves and maybe an arbitrator will hear.

Wait, try clicking your heels three times and maybe that arbitrator will take you to your dreamy place.

 

[General Lee]

Keep repeating yourselves and maybe an arbitrator will hear.

Wait, try clicking your heels three times and maybe that arbitrator will take you to your dreamy place.

The last arbitrator (NIC) did relative seniority. That is the most fair, and he added some people here and there for size of plane and type of flying, which also is fair. You need to take off your high heels lady.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[737 Pylt]

I kept my vacation.....and I don't really care what size airplane I fly.....

Sorry Joe, I'm gonna call BS on this one! You know damn well what your lawsuit was about! Restricting the size of airplanes.

I just wish my ATR wasn't going away....That is a Delta decision however and I guess they don't realize that oil is at 135 dollars a barrel....

Nobody ever accused DAL management of being very smart!

As far as vacation....it wasn't Myrtle Beach....I took the boat to the Keys and some guy in Key West told me to tell you that the test came back negative......

I thought you and jmoney broke up?:laugh:

737

 

[Superpilot92]

one thing is for sure, the final award will have nothing to do with anything we say via this forum. So anyone who claims they know what "will" happen is FOS.

 

[FDJ2]

one thing is for sure, the final award will have nothing to do with anything we say via this forum. So anyone who claims they know what "will" happen is FOS.

You are right that the SLI will not be determined here and no one knows for sure exactly what an arbitrator will decide, but in all likelihood, it will be a simple snap shot, head count and slotting of comparable positions brought to the merger.

Just look at Nicolau and you'll see the blue print for this integration. There are some differences of course. We both have wide bodied international flying for example. So it's not a matter of stapling a certain number of pilots to the top of the list to account for one group having widebodied international flying and another not. It's just a matter of adjusting the numbers on the top to account for the differences in the proportion of international flying. The same will be done with the 757s and 737s, A320/319s etc.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

Typically, when snapshots are used for integration, the lists on the date of "constructive notification" are used.

This date is usually the date the merger is announced, which was some months ago.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Typically, when snapshots are used for integration, the lists on the date of "constructive notification" are used.

This date is usually the date the merger is announced, which was some months ago.

Nu

So, an arbitrator wouldn't take into account that oil prices now are worse than they were back then, and maybe the DC9s have less of a shelf life now? He would only look at the time period of the date of announcement? Nothing has changed since then in his mind, right? DC9s and 742s are actually GOOD for our combined airline now, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[nwaredtail]

So, an arbitrator wouldn't take into account that oil prices now are worse than they were back then, and maybe the DC9s have less of a shelf life now? He would only look at the time period of the date of announcement? Nothing has changed since then in his mind, right? DC9s and 742s are actually GOOD for our combined airline now, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

See, even a moron can learn. Who would've thunk!

 

[General Lee]

See, even a moron can learn. Who would've thunk!

They could be gone before we go to an arbitrator for the SLI. High oil may get rid of them, and at least you have Compass for your junior guys to fall back on. We are still getting 777s and 73NGs supposely, on firm order.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

So, an arbitrator wouldn't take into account that oil prices now are worse than they were back then, and maybe the DC9s have less of a shelf life now? He would only look at the time period of the date of announcement? Nothing has changed since then in his mind, right? DC9s and 742s are actually GOOD for our combined airline now, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Um, no. It's simply a date on the calendar. He or she says "ok, when did everyone know about the merger?", finds out the date, and that's what it is.

Nothing complicated about it. Lot's of precedent.

Nu