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Another American Airlines Incident

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He doesn't appear to be just a nut. This is a serious incident. He bypassed a lax security check and was able to get some "Device" in his shoe.

As soon as the rest of the country's airport security companies learned of this incident, they have already began doing random thorough shoe searches. So be prepared to take them off and have a brave person stick their hand in your shoes!
 
I can see the day comming when all passengers will be forced to strip down for a full body (cavity) search then forced to wear jumpsuits and hand-cuffs like prisoners just so we won't have to worry that one of our fellow passengers might be a terrorist or some kind of nut that wants to fly the plane!
 
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I agree with the above. Yeah, the guy may well be a nut. But the very thought that he got the explosives past security and tried to ignite them in flight scares me, 911 notwithstanding.
 
I can see the moron security agents now "Captain, could you take off your shoes so I can check them?" YOU Moron I fly the plane!!! Also check the picture out on msnbc. He was obviously not a WHITE AMERICAN so don't start your profiling with us!!!!!!!!!

Freaking Crazy Nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Even before this incident we have had many pilots forced to remove their shoes (as well as belts) when trying to go through security. Most notably it seems to happen at KPHX a lot.
 
Any person who is willing to blow themselves up is a nut.
It is appalling that he got through security. I always thought
that security was better in Europe. Guess not.

I am ready to take my shoes, underwire bra (and whatever else) off --if it is going to make it safer to fly.
My thoughts are with you guys (and gals).
Merrry Christmas!
 
The irony of some of these statements amazes me. Security measures are labled moronic, yet here we have iron clad proof that security to the point of inspecting footware is critically necessary.

The "nut" did have explosives in the shoe. Clearly, he had available a deadly weapon, on board the aircraft, and he sucessfully carried it past several levels of security. He wasn't trying to ignite the shoe, but a fuse which was embedded in the explosive material inside the shoe. Therefore, this was a bonafide threat. One quickly learns that professional soldiers are predictable and may be dealt with. Amateurs, however, are infinitely more dangerous. This man was an amateur. Draw your own conclusion.

More interesting was the response of passengers, who formed a surprisingly organized effort to subdue this individual. Note the following exerpt from an AP release on the incident:

...Passengers subdued the man, some taking off their own belts to secure him into his seat, officials said. Two doctors used the airplane's onboard medical kit to sedate him, and the man's shoe was removed.

``When he was attempted to be subdued, he said he was wired,'' said Thomas Kinton, interim executive director of the Massachusetts Port Authority, which runs the airport.

Passenger Eric Debry, 42, of Paris, said he reached over the seat and pulled Reid's arms back.

``I jumped on his shoulder. Two other guys came and took his legs,'' said Debry.

Reid was held down for 10 minutes while others collected about 20 leather belts to restrain him, Debry said.

``I was there in five seconds, and there were already two or three guys on him. It was like everybody knew what they needed to do,'' said passenger Thierry Dugeon, 36, of Paris. He described the shoes as hightop-type basketball sneakers.


The fact is that security IS warranted. Call these people nuts if it makes you feel better, but don't discount the threat.

I should add that the shoe didn't have flour or blackpowder. It wasn't quite that amateur. It contained a plastic explosive with the appearance and texture of C-4. It also appeared to contain a detonator or cap. This wasn't someone trying something off the cuff, nor someone getting excited without having the equipment to back it up. The event itself ended peacefully, and by appearances, the suspect didn't exercise very good judgement in executing his plan. However, we have a valueable look at the potential.

For those who will feel safer with a door on the cockpit that can withstand 30 rounds from an MP5, five rounds from a .44 mag, three blows from a crash ax or sledge hammer, and the repeated rammings of a full beverage cart...enough semtex, C-4, or other plastique can be carried in the heel of a pair of shoes to take the door off the hinges and effect an entry, and enough would be left over to blow a window or hatch and disable the other cabin occupants from mounting an effective resistance. This means that with little more than what this man carried aboard, he had the capability to take down the airplane. Think about that, and then think about it in the hands of someone who really wanted to do it.

Then the folks who think that stun guns and darts in the cockpit are a good idea, or the folks that think pilots shouldn't be armed, come up with some better soloutions for stopping someone in this scenario. Because just after the door breech, one more charge is going to come sailing into the cockpit, and then you're done.

Label the man a nut, and dismiss this as a one-off moronic event. Or take it as seriously as it should be taken, and remember that the folks that perpetrated the 9-11 events still are out there, and have NOT been caught. More, they're not the only ones desirous or capable of doing this sort of thing. It's time to stop deriding security efforts. Such efforts are NOT moronic. It happened already, it's happening already, and it can very easily happen again.

Armed troops in the terminals are eyewash. Wandings at the gate are partially eyewash. But the entire scope of security measures combined are working toward keeping the industry alive, and you and I employed. Don't spit on the ground upon which you walk or the bed in which you lie; it's your livliehood and career, as well as mine. These actions are not moronic; they don't yet go far enough. How much proof do you need? Do you really want to see another aircraft go down while you whine about how hard it is to put up with these searches and proceedures? THEY'RE NECESSARY, without doubt, arguement, or question. Accept that.

A ten year old boy with a .22 handgun is as deadly as a professional soldier. Look at Columbine. Don't discount the threats because they seem humorous; they're not. Had this man succeeded in detonating his device in the lav instead of in general seating, the story might be very different.

Don't cry about being searched. Security is about a sterile environment. Anything that goes in or out should have the same policies and proceedures applied. That environment is critical to our jobs. Don't malign it; its keeping you employed. If you have to endure being searched to maintain the integrity of the SIDA and the terminal environment, then do it without hesitation, without question, and in a manner that demonstrates the leadership and sense of example that passengers rightfully can expect. It's your job. Do it.

We're not in Kansas any more, folks.
 
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I have two issues with your statement...

avbug said:
The "nut" did have explosives in the shoe. Clearly, he had available a deadly weapon, on board the aircraft, and he sucessfully carried it past several levels of security. He wasn't trying to ignite the shoe, but a fuse which was embedded in the explosive material inside the shoe. Therefore, this was a bonafide threat. One quickly learns that professional soldiers are predictable and may be dealt with. Amateurs, however, are infinitely more dangerous. This man was an amateur. Draw your own conclusion.

I should add that the shoe didn't have flour or blackpowder. It wasn't quite that amateur. It contained a plastic explosive with the appearance and texture of C-4. It also appeared to contain a detonator or cap. This wasn't someone trying something off the cuff, nor someone getting excited without having the equipment to back it up. The event itself ended peacefully, and by appearances, the suspect didn't exercise very good judgement in executing his plan. However, we have a valueable look at the potential.

What is the source of this information? I haven't been able to find any official details released yet.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't some sort of electronic detonator necessary to set off C4? I don't think a "fuse" would do it.

Don't cry about being searched. Security is about a sterile environment. Anything that goes in our out should have the same policies and proceedures applied. That environment is critical to our jobs. Don't malign it; its keeping you employed. If you have to endure being searched to maintain the integrity of the SIDA and the terminal environment, then do it without hesitation, without question, and in a manner that demonstrates the leadership and sense of example that passengers rightfully can expect. It's your job. Do it.

We're not in Kansas any more, folks.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. It's been repeated over and over lately the quote (I believe from Ben Franklin) "Those who give up their civil rights in pursuit of security eventually end up with neither".
The Constitution, and specifically the Bill of Rights were instituted for a very good reason... to prevent a future government from using a national crisis as an excuse to take away Americans' rights. This is how dictatorships begin... have you ever read the book 1984 by George Orwell?
It is not my job to be harassed as part of the "eyewash" you describe. I will stand up for my civil rights at any cost. It is the job of the government to find a way to weed out threats without violating my rights. The national ID card would be a good start.
If you are willing to give up your rights in the name of security, you may. Perhaps you would like living in Israel or France too, but don't insist I should do the same. Especially for a system that takes pilots nail clippers (because it gives the appearance of being thorough), but misses explosive filled shoes.
 
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First of all, all of that information has been released, and it's public. I cannot verify that C-4 specifically was used; my guess is that it was not C-4 but was a home made or commercial plastic explosive compound.

Explosives are typically discharged using either compression or heat. Some explosives will respond to one, but not the other. Some will respond to both. Some will only respond to both, simultaneously. In the case of most plastic explosives, you may shape them and light them (in small quantities, but they will not explode. Likewise, you may step on them or compress them, and they will not detonate. However, if you roll a small ball of C-4 and light it, then throw it on the ground, someone will be dumb enough to step on it to put it out, and there goes their boot heel.

In the case of a small charge in a shoe heel, the charge could be set off in several ways. A cap or detonator could be used. Such devices may be ignited electronically, or using a fuse. Many times a fuse is a safer and very reliable method of setting off a charge. In such cases, heat must be present. The time to detonation can be controlled reasonably accurately. The device is generally not at risk of transient voltage issues (some caps respond to millivolts, which can be had by brushing one's feet along the carpet, and not a good bet for a shape charge in a shoe).

To answer your question, heat alone may cause a large quantity of explosive to detonate, including C-4. However, in this case, where a fuse may be made to look like a piece of shoe lace, and a detonator may be easily concealed in the shoe or the adjacent shoe, the device is simple, efficient, and easily constructed by anyone with a little time and a few dollars...and you can find it all right on the internet.

On the subject of a "national ID card," let's not forget that every hijacker and terrorist on sept 11th was carrying an authentic legitimate identification issued by the government. That is NO gaurantee, and we all know it.

As for your rights, you have no right to fly an airplane. You have a privilege. You have no right to fly. You have a privilege. In order to assure the equal placement of this privilege among all (including your true employers; your clients, who are your passengers, and who are ultimately paying your salary). we are all subject to the same precautions. A secure area is designated, and it doesn't matter that a crew member enters or a passenger; everyone must be cleared in to maintain the sanctity of the secure area. Let one person in who is exempt, and the concept of a secure area is compromised and worthless.

Don't speak of giving up rights; you're following guidelines to ensure that you may keep your privilege. Your privilege is not to walk into a secured area unfettered. Your privilege is to walk into a secured area after being subjected to the same precautions as everyone else, and get on an airplane, and not be killed. Where has anyone hindered your rights??

No comparison may be remotely made with George Orwell's fantasy. We have no doubt, no question that the security precautions are necessary. I'm convinced. How many more airliners would you like to see blown up to satisfy your personal minimums? How many more folks with semtex in their shoes do you need? What places you higher than everyone else? What makes your needs greater, and your so-called "rights" more important?

Which specific civil rights have been violated? Can you name them? It sounds good, but I surely don't see it. Help me out.
 
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