Another alcohol incident

[Slim]

I apologize, in advance, if this is not 100% accurate.

In the late 1980s/early 1990s, a Jetstream International pilot reported for work under the influence. He called in, told scheduling he was running late because of a flat tire, and said he would be in for his next scheduled departure from DAY (his domicile). Another first officer was assigned to fly the first two legs of his duty period.

After arriving at the airplane, the captain noticed nothing wrong with this pilot. At the out station, another employee smelled something on the first officer's breath and reported it. However, the flight departed as scheduled. In DAY, the flight was met and both pilots were removed from duty.

The FAA went after the first officer and the captain! The reason was the captain should never have allowed the first officer to fly. While technically correct, the captain stated, many times, he never smelled any alcohol, and did not observe any behavior indicating the first officer was intoxicated. It took a long time, but the captain evetually won his job back, thanks to ALPA (by the way, ALPA did exactly what they were supposed to do in this case!).

The captain's position was he had a lousy sense of smell. If I recall the story accurately, he spent a lot of his own money to demonstrate this lousy sense of smell. A captain may not always be able to smell alcohol. I'm not certain I could unles the first officer was exhaling right in my face.

 

[saabcaptain]

I know as a Captain there would be no question that if I had the slightest thought my FO or any of my crew was under the influence that they would certainly not fly on my aircraft, I am also disturbed that time and again the FAA and companies go after the entire cockpit crew when there is but one offender. Now if it can be somehow proved that one pilot knowingly allowed the other to fly under the influence I could understand going after both but I am frightened by the concept that should I fail to see my FO is intoxicated I could lose my job and career.

 

[Orvilleflyer]

No brains no headaches I guess...

 

[ILS JNKY]

boozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I think thats why you get days off from duty, just to do what you want, and if it's drinking on your day off than so be it.


All that money down the drain for flight training ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[TDTURBO]

They still should let him fly part 91 stuff without a problem in a year or so. His 135 and 121 days are certainly over if he's guilty.

 

[Caveman]

"...well trained and alert TSA screener."

Here are some other fictional characters:

Easter Bunny
Unicorns
Santa

 

[skydiverdriver]

Hey Sabreliner,
I believe an alcohol test given by a law enforcement officer IS valid, just as we have to show our certificates to any federal, state or local law enforcement official. It may not sound right, but I do believe it's legal.

 

[79%N1]

The day may soon come where each individual company Bans drinking completely during any company time! This means all overnights, layovers, etc.. And, why shouldn't they? Do we need to drink on these overnights? This is still, after all, company time, even if crews are not technically "on duty." I sure don't need to drink on overnights, although I have seen many crewmembers that do! I know the age old arguement, hey, I should be allowed to have a couple of cocktails at dinner...blah, blah, blah....I know firsthand, too many take it farther than this. Well, the actions of all too many of our peers may take that "right" away for good! Could anybody blame the first company that steps up and outlaws drinking on overnights altogether? They might be saving some of you from yourselves!

 

[Sphincter Boy]

I was actually there when it happened. We saw the 757 just sitting on the ramp with the beacon on going nowhere. It wasn't until the next day that I heard the news and realized that we were within feet of the incident.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by suen1843
I am sure lots of people will strongly disagree with this, but, any pilot who cannot do a complete duty tour without having an alcoholic drink has a drinking problem and should find a new career.

Now bear in mind that I neither smoke nor drink, so my perspective on this issue may be narrow...but I have to agree with suen on this one. Is that drink really more important than your career?

There is one good thing--and only one good thing--about this most recent incident. In light of recent events, the general public was probably beginning to see alcohol as a "little airline" problem. "That can't happen at the 'real' airlines." Sadly, it can. It can happen anywhere.

The TSA screeners are watching, listening, and sniffing, folks. If you do this kind of drinking while you're at work, you're playing Russian roulette with all our reputations.

 

[rjcap]

In light of recent events, the general public was probably beginning to see alcohol as a regional/national airline problem. "That can't happen at the 'real' airlines." Sadly, it can. It can happen anywhere.

This recent event was all over TV on the local and national news networks.

 

[100LL... Again!]

24 hr bottle-to-throttle is only a matter of time.

The public is too jumpy to keep shrugging it off.

Does anybody know why the sudden rise in these incidents?

 

[sidesaddle]

Though, I'm sure his union will save his idiotic butt.

Actually, not true. If it is established that you are over the limit and you cross the threshold of the aircraft, nobody can save your job.

 

[ifly4food]

The day may soon come where each individual company Bans drinking completely during any company time! This means all overnights, layovers, etc.. And, why shouldn't they? Do we need to drink on these overnights? This is still, after all, company time, even if crews are not technically "on duty." I sure don't need to drink on overnights, although I have seen many crewmembers that do!... Could anybody blame the first company that steps up and outlaws drinking on overnights altogether? They might be saving some of you from yourselves!

Here's why. .. because it's none of the company's d@%* business what I do on an overnight as long as I report to work in accordance with company policies.
If we set a precedent of the company imposing arbitrary rules on overnights, we will end up being prohibited from ever leaving the hotel. Let me assure you, every company eggghead manager would LOVE not having to wonder what crews are doing. Plus, they're always available to be contacted of rescheduled.
If you go out and have a couple drinks, that's your business. If you get wasted and show up for work drunk, you're an idiot and deserve what you get. There's a big difference between the two.

I can't stand the Hillary Clinton liberal "We're going to save you from yourself" attitude some people have.

Originally posted by suen 1843
I am sure lots of people will strongly disagree with this, but, any pilot who cannot do a complete duty tour without having an alcoholic drink has a drinking problem and should find a new career. Get out of our industry... Those of us who can wait until being completely off duty to have a glass of wine, etc., have no use for pilots who can't handle their "needs". Get some help or go away !!!!!

Come on! How can you say with a straight face that anyone who has a drink on an overnight has a drinking problem. There's a big difference between having one or two drinks within legal time limits and getting wasted so that you show up for work drunk.

 

[B52GUNNER]

This drinking thing is going crazy. I had a situation yesterday where things almost got out of control. We were on our last flight of the day (6 turns) and after boarding I was doing my seatbelt and cary-on check of the aircraft when I heard one of the passengers commenting about pilots drinking. Now, I noticed the smell of alcohol in the cabin but could not tell if it was the passenger that made the remark or it was one next to them. A 1900 is a small cabin. When I was boarding the plane I did not notice any pax smelling of alcohol or obviously intoxicated. I brought this to the attention of the captain and he asked me if it was directed to me or if it was something I overheard. As it was not said directly to me we let it slide.

This was all at an uncontrolled field in another country, where we were almost killed trying to land on our inbound flight. First we were cut off on final by an experimental....and had to make a go-around. Then on our second try, we were turning base to final and some jacka$$ in a 402 took off downwind right into us. We called him on the radio and asked what the HE!! he was doing as we were on final, and had been making position reports. He replied that it was ok, he was staying at 500 feet until we passed over him.........

The return flight ended without any problems. Most of the pax had cleared customs when we got in, so never did find out where the alcohol smell came from.

 

[B52GUNNER]

Now that you mention it.....pax on the inbound had a suitcase full of wine. I think one of the bottles might have broken. I had not been in the situation before the way things are going today, we have to be careful.

Small world out there...you just might be right..

 

[boeingav8r]

_

I'm not taking up for this drunk idiot pilot in any way, nor have I ever used alcohol while on a trip myself. He should have thought of his family, his career, and even the damage he caused his fellow pilots in the industry before he took that 2nd or 3rd drink. In an ideal world, he should have just called in sick. His repramand would have been small compared to what he's facing now. However, if I were in his shoes, here's how I'd handle the situation. IF I had been drinking and was stupid enough to walk thru security and have a screener accuse me of being drunk, I would NEVER agree to take the alcohol test. I would let them take me to jail or whatever but I'd never blow in that tube. As soon as you take that test and they get a "hard number" on you, that's all she wrote. At least if you don't take the test, they have not concrete proof of how intoxicated you were, and after you've sobered up and gotten professional help, you might possibly have a fighting chance to get your job back. Otherwise, if you blow in that tube, you're career is probably over for good and you will more than likely never fly for a reputable airline again. I'm not an advocate of drinking on trips at all, but still I would have handled it differently. I am personally upset that guys like him contribute to the somewhat bad reputation that pilots have. A few bad apples can ruin it for all of us in the industry. just my .02

 

[CatYaaak]

They still should let him fly part 91 stuff without a problem in a year or so. His 135 and 121 days are certainly over if he's guilty.

The FAA enforces via "certificate action" (not by banning someone from flying under certain reg "Parts") and if found guilty, it's probable that his Commercial and ATP Certificates are revoked forever. The "Part 91 stuff" you refer to also includes 99% of corporate flight departments operating aircraft crewed by professional pilots getting paid for their services, and so an FAA certificate action of this nature would also preclude him from ever acting in that capacity for the duration of the certificate action (for example...a revoked Comm / ATP means no driving around 3M's G-V's either)

Of course, not many Part 91 corporate flight departments race to hire airline pilots anyway, let alone one with a history of showing up for work drunk.

Perhaps what you meant was that he might eventually have his Private Pilot Certificate priviledges restored. IMO (if indeed found guilty) is that even those should never be.

 

[BigFlyr]

All of us "occasional drinkers" know how refreshing and relaxing a "cold one" can be after a 12 hour plus duty day. Unfortunately, the privilege of having an alcoholic beverage at the end of the day while out on a trip will soon come to an end if we continue to abuse this privilege. I can see it now... 24 hours from bottle to throttle...

 

[Flightjock30]

My cousin, a commercial rated pilot, and Embry Riddle student was arrested this past semester drinking and driving. He got a DUI as a result. He ruined his chances to fly for a living! Hes now transferring schools to get a degree in something else. Its just not worth it folks! Alcohol and flying do not mix.