Another AirNow EMB-110 Crash

[honeycomb]

D:

Yes, both were out. Poor kid used his loran, even though the wx was at ils mins.

Hung

You cannot teach good judgement. As much as we would like to believe we can.

 

[Hung Start]

Classic example of get-home-itis. But (and this is absolutely no defense) I knew the company he worked for very well. Cheap beyond belief. If he got stuck in Bangor they would NEVER pay for a room, just either sleep in the lobby chair or in the plane. And even if he got home mid-day, they would expect him to show at 5pm anyway.

But, also, do remember, most freight guys are running all night, and even if you did get a good day's rest, your clock is still upside down. And in those times you need to make a snap judgement call, you need it right here, right now. Some make the right one, some don't.
Not easy, in the best of circumstances. So, I'm not always fast to blame training, the best can only cover so much.
Once again, just be as safe as you can!!

Hung

 

[mav1morrison]

For all those out there still llistening in Hung Start has it right. He started down over the field not the VOR and at 6 miles pushed the power up and hit the ridge east of DDH not Mt Anthony. They are still a class operation just can't put a finger on what's going on.

 

[b19]

Please be safe and follow the rules

I going to put my two cents in, actually I am begging you to be safe.

I fly a widebody for a decent cargo company but this is the same advice I have always given to someone that was about to upgrade. It takes a lot more courage to call dispatch and say " I would love to do the flight, but I don't think our op specs, FAR's the mel or whatever the case may be allows it and I don't feel safe." This is usually followed by some veiled threat, intimidation or something to make you question your judgment. It takes a whole lot more courage to be a courteous profesional and stand your ground than get pushed into something you dont feel comfortable with. But once you learn how to respectfully stand up, you will have a whole lot more respect from your fellow pilots and yourself.

Please be safe, follow the rules, and be proud that you don't take chances.

This is not meant as a criticism, just an acknowledgment of how hard it is to always do the right thing.

Fly safe, Good health and good luck.

 

[Steve]

I going to put my two cents in, actually I am begging you to be safe.

I fly a widebody for a decent cargo company but this is the same advice I have always given to someone that was about to upgrade. It takes a lot more courage to call dispatch and say " I would love to do the flight, but I don't think our op specs, FAR's the mel or whatever the case may be allows it and I don't feel safe." This is usually followed by some veiled threat, intimidation or something to make you question your judgment. It takes a whole lot more courage to be a courteous profesional and stand your ground than get pushed into something you dont feel comfortable with. But once you learn how to respectfully stand up, you will have a whole lot more respect from your fellow pilots and yourself.

Please be safe, follow the rules, and be proud that you don't take chances.

This is not meant as a criticism, just an acknowledgment of how hard it is to always do the right thing.

Fly safe, Good health and good luck.

Good post. Thank you

 

[RideTheWind]

Rattler 59

Radar track of the flight
http://map4.flightaware.com/flight_track_map.rvt?ident=RLR59;airports=KBGM KDDH+;key=6019b41281ecaf118ed890d9820376d2d4fce24f;keytime=1155765227;height=600;width=800;departuretime=1154694000;arrivaltime=1154696220

Position and altitudes
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RLR59/history/20060804/1220Z/KBGM/KDDH/tracklog

The radar track above shows a vectored approach and a climbing left missed followed by a turn back over the VOR and over the airport and descent just after passing the airport.

level 3400'
http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/chart/chart.cfm?chart=Sectional&typ=LL&txt=42%2E95%2C%20%2D73%2E30

level 3400'
http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/chart/chart.cfm?chart=Sectional&typ=LL&txt=42%2E9%2C%20%2D73%2E27

descending thru 2700'
http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/chart/chart.cfm?chart=Sectional&typ=LL&txt=42%2E87%2C%20%2D73%2E23

 

[Hung Start]

I would like to emphasize that my last post (#42) was not referring to Airnow, the example I used was to an accident in Presque Isle, not anything involving Airnow or Business Air.
The low ball operator was NOT them. If you were in Maine in the 90's you would know well of them.
You got to fly their rat-trap Pipers for the bargain price of $12.00 per hour. You paid them!!!!!!

Hung

 

[Diesel]

Hung I flew the flight right after it happend before we gave it to you. Anyways we were taxing out of PWM with the mail and the weather went below in BOS so i taxied back.

The mail guy came out yelling at me. He kept saying "the last guy would go no matter what." well i said where is the last guy? He kept his mouth shut and then told me he used to carry an air tank with him and fill up his tires on every landing.

Right before he hit the hill he was in the BGR FSS station and said he had to go. The briefers asked him how he was going to get in because the ILS was out. He said he had a way. Yeah using a loran on the hill instead of the airport.

The crash before that was with the pilot and the girlfriend? I guess the weight shifted on takeoff or he was showing her a real agressive climb when it shifted. Pretty sad.

 

[Hung Start]

D:

There were actually 2 accidents within 2 months. The first one was the hill with the girlfriend. The second was on departure in an Aerostar. And you are right, no cargo net, fast pull up. Announced before he started the roll over the radio he was going to show everybody how fast an Aerostar could climb. Just pulled up and rolled over.

No end to the ways we can kill ourselves, is there?

Hung

 

[belchfire]

I going to put my two cents in, actually I am begging you to be safe.

I fly a widebody for a decent cargo company but this is the same advice I have always given to someone that was about to upgrade. It takes a lot more courage to call dispatch and say " I would love to do the flight, but I don't think our op specs, FAR's the mel or whatever the case may be allows it and I don't feel safe." This is usually followed by some veiled threat, intimidation or something to make you question your judgment. It takes a whole lot more courage to be a courteous profesional and stand your ground than get pushed into something you dont feel comfortable with. But once you learn how to respectfully stand up, you will have a whole lot more respect from your fellow pilots and yourself.

Please be safe, follow the rules, and be proud that you don't take chances.

This is not meant as a criticism, just an acknowledgment of how hard it is to always do the right thing.

Fly safe, Good health and good luck.

Nice post.

Ya know I never understand why Dispatch/management get such a wad in thier panties when pilots refuse to do something illegal, unsafe or unsmart. Somehow they don't understand that we really would rather be doing the trip and making some money than having to explain ourselves to them on the fracking phone.

I guess it's the same logic that PO'd pax use when a flight gets canceled/or delayed due to wx or mx...jeeze duffus, if the pilot has reason not to want to do the trip, do you really want him to take you???

It's your ticket/azz out there, not theirs-what are they going to do, fire you and make you go get a low paying job working for someone you can't stand?