Another AirNow EMB-110 Crash

[C421CPT]

This EMB 110 is a widow maker as they say in South America. Maybe 50% of all manufactured had some incident or fatal crash. I lost 2 friends from different companies flying the EMB 110 down south.

 

[Scube3]

Also Airnow convert the cockpit to a single pilot plane by pulling all of the instruments (attitude, altimeter, A/I, etc) out of co-pilot side to reduce weight... So I don't know how much would it help to have second pilot on the cockpit. They will have to make some major remodeling in their fleet.

Scube.

 

[mav1morrison]

Not all the airplanes had all the instruments removed from the right side. This hit's home for me I was there for a long time. The maint and training for these airplanes was in my opionion very good. Those people never asked me to do anything unsafe never asked me to fly a broken airplane. The chief pilot his pilot safety at the front of his thoughts. Besides after the last crash all check rides went though the FAA in the Bandit. It sucks big time to lose a good man an d a good pilot. GOD rest his soul.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

An AirNow caravan driver told me that they think he accidentally punched the airport into the GPS instead of the VOR. That explains why he crashed 6 miles past the airport. The VOR is six miles before the airport. This is just a rumor and I'm not trying to blame the poor guy. Lets all wait and see what the NTSB has to say. My condolences to all who knew him. You freight dawgs be careful out there.

 

[Say Again Over]

This EMB 110 is a widow maker as they say in South America.

Is this the "Bandit", I thought this would be a very easy aircraft to operate, any comments from EMB 110 drivers? RIP.

 

[Golden Falcon]

flew it 20 yrs ago or so for about 500hrs..found it to be very docile and stable...bit anemic in an eng-out go-around but satisfactory...but your feet froze off when extending the gear in cold weather...

 

[rettofly]

Is this the "Bandit", I thought this would be a very easy aircraft to operate, any comments from EMB 110 drivers? RIP.

I logged 1300 hrs in the Bandit a few years ago, mostly with f/o seated behind a basic six pack of steam gauges. My side had an HSI,and we had /G GPS. Most of the flying was at night, and several hundred hours were single pilot.

Except for anemic single engine climb (calculated 198 ft/mile at sea level / standard atmo at GTOW), I was very comfortable with this type. It was actually a puddytat (can't say "*************************cat" any more, I guess) as long as attention was paid to trim.

RIP to another freight dog.

 

[freighthumper]

I flew the bandit for AirNow for 3 years and it was an easy plane to fly(actually the first twin I ever soloed..). Fairly simple systems, definately not too much for 1 pilot to handle in an emergency. Trainging was OK, in my opinon they really need a sim though. You just cant realistically simulate some things while in an actualy aircraft. These accidents are giving the bandit a bad name, a 172 will be a "widow maker" if you run out of fuel, dont fly the published miss right, etc.. I think the main thing here is incompetant pilots. Single pilot freight isnt for everyone as too many unfortunate souls have proven.

 

[ACT700]

I flew the bandit for AirNow for 3 years and it was an easy plane to fly(actually the first twin I ever soloed..). Fairly simple systems, definately not too much for 1 pilot to handle in an emergency. Trainging was OK, in my opinon they really need a sim though. You just cant realistically simulate some things while in an actualy aircraft. These accidents are giving the bandit a bad name, a 172 will be a "widow maker" if you run out of fuel, dont fly the published miss right, etc.. I think the main thing here is incompetant pilots. Single pilot freight isnt for everyone as too many unfortunate souls have proven.

True that!

 

[Hung Start]

An AirNow caravan driver told me that they think he accidentally punched the airport into the GPS instead of the VOR. That explains why he crashed 6 miles past the airport. The VOR is six miles before the airport. This is just a rumor and I'm not trying to blame the poor guy. Lets all wait and see what the NTSB has to say. My condolences to all who knew him. You freight dawgs be careful out there.

The exact same scenario happened up in Presque Isle, Maine back in 1998. A piston twin did the approach with the ILS down, using a Loran. Dialed in the airport, not the vor that was 3 miles down the road. Did all the step down fixes exactly 3 miles too early. Hit hill. Very messy deal.
Remember guys,,, garbage in, garbage out.
Be careful!!

Hung

 

[satpak77]

always back up GPS data with analog if you can

 

[T-REX]

An AirNow caravan driver told me that they think he accidentally punched the airport into the GPS instead of the VOR. That explains why he crashed 6 miles past the airport. The VOR is six miles before the airport. This is just a rumor and I'm not trying to blame the poor guy. Lets all wait and see what the NTSB has to say. My condolences to all who knew him. You freight dawgs be careful out there.

The exact same scenario happened up in Presque Isle, Maine back in 1998. A piston twin did the approach with the ILS down, using a Loran. Dialed in the airport, not the vor that was 3 miles down the road. Did all the step down fixes exactly 3 miles too early. Hit hill. Very messy deal.
Remember guys,,, garbage in, garbage out.
Be careful!!

Hung

Complete speculation of course- but I'm not sure about all that.

First of all, at least when I worked at AirNow none of the GPS were approach certified. Sure people still used them but here the VOR app. takes you 200 ft lower than the RNAV anyway. Doesn't make much since to fly the GPS. Next, the VOR used on the approach does not have the same identifier as the airport VOR=CAM and Bennington=DDH. Hard to say whether he was tracking to the wrong fix.

The mountain that the plane hit is only a mile and a half from the airport. The mountain top is 2400 ft and the MDA is 1880. At 120 kts if he was tracking to the airport that would only give him 30-45 seconds to make his turn. If he was following the VOR-DME he would have about 3 miles from the MAP to the mountain, still not much room for a 180 degree turn.

Again sorry for another AirNow loss and I hate speculating. But I doubt without having a FDR and only having partial radar coverage the NTSB will not have anything but speculation either. Be safe.

 

[LostLuggage]

Just applied

Well, I just filled the climbto350.com and AirNow online apps. Here's hoping this doesn't turn out to be a case of "famous last words" on account of bad equipment. I don't know a thing about what happend to that poor chap, I just hope that nothing extraneous to the confines of his noggin had anything to do with his sad demise. My condolenses to his family, friends and the profession.

 

[Bringupthebird]

An AirNow caravan driver told me that they think he accidentally punched the airport into the GPS instead of the VOR. That explains why he crashed 6 miles past the airport. The VOR is six miles before the airport. This is just a rumor and I'm not trying to blame the poor guy. Lets all wait and see what the NTSB has to say. My condolences to all who knew him. You freight dawgs be careful out there.

The exact same scenario happened up in Presque Isle, Maine back in 1998. A piston twin did the approach with the ILS down, using a Loran. Dialed in the airport, not the vor that was 3 miles down the road. Did all the step down fixes exactly 3 miles too early. Hit hill. Very messy deal.
Remember guys,,, garbage in, garbage out.
Be careful!!

Hung

I thought that was the reason they re-named all the VOR's that weren't co-located with the airport. There should be better technology by now to eliminate the dive and drive.

In all my dealings with Air Now (when they were Business Air) they seemed very professional. Their recent rash of accidents seems inconsistent with what I remember about them.

 

[Hung Start]

When I wrote about mis-reading the info that was plugged into the GPS, it was speculation at best. I am not trying to imply this was the case, BUT it has been known to happen. That's why I referenced the PQI accident.
The thing we all have to understand, is we all have input into what happens to us. Well, almost always. Sometimes you can do the absolute best you can and things conspire to work against you. Bad karma?

But look at the accidents that AirNow has had that I can remember with the Bandit. I may not have all of them, but this is what I pulled off the NTSB reports.
1) Plane ran out of fuel enroute. Forgot to check tanks
2) Lost engine on T/O, almost made it back to airport (bad karma?)
3) Seemingly had one engine shut down (reason not given) on short final with airport in sight used full flaps. Didn't make the runway.
4) This one, missed approach, who knows what happend.

Pratts are good, but they have been known to fail. I have been lucky that in all these hours I have never had one go T/U on me, so can I comment on how I would handle it for real? No way. Sure we practice, but until that moment really, really happens to you, we are all hotshot pilots.
All we can do at this point is admit that sometimes, even the best of us (thats all of us, right) makes mistakes and a tragedy happens. Let us learn from it and not forget!

Hung

 

[honeycomb]

Well Said Hung.

 

[belchfire]

The missed app proceedure doesn't look that bad, but with marginal or no radar coverage and having to hand fly the published miss rather than getting vectors that are often given in the radar environment can be a tough mental change of gears to make - on top of having to clean up the bird and run the radios by yourself and start thinking about what you are going to do next. A missed approach at night in IFR conditions is one of the highest workload environments a pilot will ever be in and is something that doesn't happen that often.

My thoughts and prayers for the friends and family...

Be careful out there guys and gals!

 

[Diesel]

Hung wasn't the GS and LOC out in PQI when he hit the hill?

We did that run for a couple of nights after the accident and the boss said "no way." after he did it with me. He didn't like to be away from his bed at night and didn't expect his boys to be either.

They make em tougher in LEW

 

[Hung Start]

D:

Yes, both were out. Poor kid used his loran, even though the wx was at ils mins.
We got the contract right after that, that's why I am so familiar with the accident.
Took his girlfriend for her first flight that night, never told anybody at his company. Canned flight plan, so only 1 listed onboard. Everybody was confused when they had two chared beyond recognition bodies, they couldn't even tell the sexes. And the girls parents couldn't find her, about 3 days later they found her car at the airport and realized what might have happened. Dental records were the only way too tell. Very, very sad all around.
You going to stop in this winter? Nice Irish pub across the street from me now. The Eyetalian keeps telling me he will be here, be he gets lost out of Gorham!

Hung

 

[satpak77]

Yes, both were out. Poor kid used his loran, even though the wx was at ils mins.

jeez...