Anderson to align capacity with demand

[andyd]

PS: We need a lot more ranting.....[/QUOTE]


What we need are a LOT more like minded individuals running in the next LEC elections, from NORTH and SOUTH and replace EVERYONE who is not FIRM and UNCOMPROMISING on scope. We need a complete change in LEC and MEC leadership...including MOAK and the negotiating committee. We all need to take a good hard look at what is happening over at UAL/Air Lingus....it is just a matter of time before the company attempts the same shell game with KLM/Air France. Scope is NOT just about narrow body 100 seat jobs anymore, we need to get in FRONT of this issue. We need an LEC and MEC that are willing to spend a few days in jail to press an issue and effect change. Managements does not play by the rules so why should we?

Please please please...do NOT vote for an incumbant LEC rep unless you personally acertain thier views and votes on scope related issues and whether they support MOAK or not. Again, I have said this before: A vote for Moak is a vote to give away scope.

Yes I will be running, will you? If you are interested further..please pm me.

 

[Diesel-9]

Still think a majority of the DALN guys are Redbook that are coming up on the age of 60. Imagine those with heavy backround and moderate to large lump sum excess plan payouts will wait it out to 60 to collect. Would you take $100,000-$250,000 in a check or take it in an annuity of $700-800 a month?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Shouldn't you be sniffing Dan's desk chair while he's in DC?

.....no I'm content watching y'all try to corral the horses and get them back in the barn while you complain about your own MEC....pass the salt...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If anything Joe, I would be concerned that there is actually is a group that is going to get just that done. That means stagnation for you.

 

[FDJ2]

If anything Joe, I would be concerned that there is actually is a group that is going to get just that done. That means stagnation for you.

His career stagnation is a result of the RJDC throwing in the towel on their attempt to abrogate scope at DAL and a lack of PFT opportunities.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2 and ACL65:

My friends, I wish people would come at this issue objectively, based on the numbers rather than responding to Joe's emotional taunts & bomb tossing.

Joe is far enough up the list that 2 for 1 deals will benefit him. In his own part of the business, he is the senior Captain that is really not impacted by furloughs at his airline, as long as the "big airplane" flying remains unaffected, or grows. Mesa's reaffirmation of their injunction against Delta puts operators like SkyWest in the proverbial "Catbird Seat" for aircraft swap deals as Delta needs to modify their DCI contracts.

Again, I plead that intelligent people dispassionately look at the scope reforms that are needed regardless of the source. Dan Ford is much more conservative on scope issues that the Delta MEC has been, or is. The simple basic truth is that the mainline (not just Delta, but United, US Air and Northwest in that order) went to management with "scope sales" before bankruptcies and followed up this use of scope as "bargaining credit" through difficult bankruptcy negotiations that wiped out most of the gains made during the fight to rid the airlines of "B scale." Today, look at how scope violations are resolved. Has anyone parked a new RJ? NO! Instead ALPA bargains something for the violation. Scope Violations = Bargaining Events. That's just the fact of the matter.

Dan Ford fought ALPA to get scope for the regional carriers, a battle which he finally won too late to make a tremendous difference. Now he is correctly pointing out that Delta scope is so poorly worded as to be unenforceable when put under stress. Guess who also is making that point? Anyone attend the Counsil 44 meeting and hear the description of the Compass flow down?

The flow down is so ambiguous and the implementation of the former NWA LOA's are such a mess that they are acknowledged on both sides as being flawed. The basis for "approved aircraft types" are lines in the sand that can not effectively be measured. Like the MD88's, B757's, 767's and 777's the E170/175/190/195 are Certified across a wide range of weights. Literally you pay your money to the manufacturer, put some stickers around the jet, make one logbook entry and off you go. It is a scope limit that lacks any easy way to implement a compliance system. So, we rely on management telling us they are in compliance... .

Even if you strongly disagree with Dan Ford's grass roots, old fashioned, approach to ALPA's activities, score keepers must admit he has been right much more frequently than he has been wrong. His evaluation of scope, although unpopular, has been correct. He's probably right that "lines in the sand" need to be replaced with more objective measures like Type Certificates.

Hence the reason why I think it would be smart for the Delta MEC to capture Compass, then fight to push Republic out of Delta Connection BEFORE contract 2012 negotiations and the battle over 100 seat scope. In this business you have to be proactive to win. We have seen the result of reactive, concessionary, scope negotiations.

If nothing else, Dan Ford's presentation will hopefully get someone to thinking.

Frankly, I believe those in power don't care. They are willing to use Dan Ford as a political straw man, but at the end of the day if it does not effect a wide body, they just don't care.

 

[Browntothebone]

Sounds like this Dan Ford guy needs to run for ALPA president. He has some good ideas.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

.....no I'm content watching y'all try to corral the horses and get them back in the barn while you complain about your own MEC....pass the salt...

I would guess you would know about salt. It's about to get poured into your wound!:laugh:

 

[Fly4hire]

FDJ2 and ACL65:

The flow down is so ambiguous and the implementation of the former NWA LOA's are such a mess that they are acknowledged on both sides as being flawed.

Fins,

That is an urban myth being propagated by the same WB don't care about Scope crowd. I have the original LOA's, as does the MEC, and they are quite clear cut on how a flow works.

The claim they don't understand is the MEC's opening to use them for a bargaining credit for something else

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly4hire:

You could be right. I don't know the political spin.

Certainly a single list would achieve all the goals of a flow through, without any of the downside risk to Delta pilots who might get pushed off the property.

It is my hope these flow downs are not called on to function.

 

[Fly4hire]

Fins,

There is much truth in what Ford speaks in concept, unfortunately he has wrapped his arguments in tactics so objectionable to mainline pilots (DOH integration, Scope in all Ejets to Feed, sue DALPA again) that not only are his relevant points lost, they are used as ammunition against more reasoned approaches to solving Scope issues by association to RJDC.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fly4hire - That is a very reasonable analysis.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If anything Joe, I would be concerned that there is actually is a group that is going to get just that done. That means stagnation for you.

Stagnation works just fine for me....I'm in the middle of 5 weeks off in a row out of just 1 week of vacation....I can deal with that kind of stagnation.....What I don't want is to be bumped down by mainline pilots who don't like the way things have worked out so far.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

His career stagnation is a result of the RJDC throwing in the towel on their attempt to abrogate scope at DAL and a lack of PFT opportunities.

My career stagnation is working out just fine....Many people are moving backward...Stagnation is better than moving backwards...

 

[JoeMerchant]

FDJ2 and ACL65:

My friends, I wish people would come at this issue objectively, based on the numbers rather than responding to Joe's emotional taunts & bomb tossing.

Joe is far enough up the list that 2 for 1 deals will benefit him. In his own part of the business, he is the senior Captain that is really not impacted by furloughs at his airline, as long as the "big airplane" flying remains unaffected, or grows. Mesa's reaffirmation of their injunction against Delta puts operators like SkyWest in the proverbial "Catbird Seat" for aircraft swap deals as Delta needs to modify their DCI contracts.

Again, I plead that intelligent people dispassionately look at the scope reforms that are needed regardless of the source. Dan Ford is much more conservative on scope issues that the Delta MEC has been, or is. The simple basic truth is that the mainline (not just Delta, but United, US Air and Northwest in that order) went to management with "scope sales" before bankruptcies and followed up this use of scope as "bargaining credit" through difficult bankruptcy negotiations that wiped out most of the gains made during the fight to rid the airlines of "B scale." Today, look at how scope violations are resolved. Has anyone parked a new RJ? NO! Instead ALPA bargains something for the violation. Scope Violations = Bargaining Events. That's just the fact of the matter.

Dan Ford fought ALPA to get scope for the regional carriers, a battle which he finally won too late to make a tremendous difference. Now he is correctly pointing out that Delta scope is so poorly worded as to be unenforceable when put under stress. Guess who also is making that point? Anyone attend the Counsil 44 meeting and hear the description of the Compass flow down?

The flow down is so ambiguous and the implementation of the former NWA LOA's are such a mess that they are acknowledged on both sides as being flawed. The basis for "approved aircraft types" are lines in the sand that can not effectively be measured. Like the MD88's, B757's, 767's and 777's the E170/175/190/195 are Certified across a wide range of weights. Literally you pay your money to the manufacturer, put some stickers around the jet, make one logbook entry and off you go. It is a scope limit that lacks any easy way to implement a compliance system. So, we rely on management telling us they are in compliance... .

Even if you strongly disagree with Dan Ford's grass roots, old fashioned, approach to ALPA's activities, score keepers must admit he has been right much more frequently than he has been wrong. His evaluation of scope, although unpopular, has been correct. He's probably right that "lines in the sand" need to be replaced with more objective measures like Type Certificates.

Hence the reason why I think it would be smart for the Delta MEC to capture Compass, then fight to push Republic out of Delta Connection BEFORE contract 2012 negotiations and the battle over 100 seat scope. In this business you have to be proactive to win. We have seen the result of reactive, concessionary, scope negotiations.

If nothing else, Dan Ford's presentation will hopefully get someone to thinking.

Frankly, I believe those in power don't care. They are willing to use Dan Ford as a political straw man, but at the end of the day if it does not effect a wide body, they just don't care.

Nice summary Fins...even the part about me...Even you don't believe those in power care....I'll just sit back and watch the fire burn...Too late to put it out....