Anderson to align capacity with demand

[licorice]

But only for 180 days, which the bulk of this downturn will most certainly be.

Too bad you guys didn't get unlimted recall rights in the JPWA...

Nu

This is really quite comical, your hypocrisy is palpable...meaning it is so thick you can squeeze it between your fingers like silly putty....only a short year ago you were decrying the inadequacies of the DAL 767/757 categories/bases and how great it was at NWA, what with all the "premium" flying horsesh!t that in actuality paid dogsh!t ....and how can we forget grown men crying over 747s in the SLI video opener. And now...suddenly you actually like the 767 and it's bases?.....suddenly it's going to be "your" airplane, you're going to "take" it from us because of an SLI that didn't go your way?

...But if the SLI had gone your way, -DOH but, lets say, with the same fences we have now, none of the hundreds of disgruntled DC9 and A320 drivers in the frozen hell-holes of the north -dreaming of sudden widebody entitlement, sunshine and glory....would be lacing up their track shoes for the sprint south and west...yeah right! Must have been a great airline you worked for when all you can do is constantly drool about what the other airline brought to the table....for all you salivating droolers up north of the ilk of nuguy, -chests pumped up and burning with pride in their airline roots... don't forget your bibs, -you don't want to mess up those new uniforms with slobber.

Now, on a less serious note, Delta brings approx. 100 unfenced widebodies to the party...compared to what? 30 or so from NW? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate which group makes out in that deal....and I'll say it..(as I try to stifle myself)...good for you!!!...it's called a "fair and equitable seniority list". For all you junior NW types with seniority equivalent to DAL 2000, 2001, 2007 hires naively thinking you'll be a shoe-in for a DAL south international WB position....well you're naive. With the economic downturn/capacity cutbacks/displacements (800 in the south alone according to your sincere ambassador of good will...nuguy...oh yeah but no displacements in the north...even with a whole category of WB disappearing...amazing!) the seniority/positions will be rationalized... much more senior.... for every 5 NWs bidding for a south position, there will be 7 DALs of equal seniority bidding the same. No doubt many of you more senior commuters flying NBs in the north will make it to WBs in the south with an easier commute, but not everybody who thinks they can hold that now will get that award.

 

[DTW320]

Heyas RT,

Again, pretty close to the mark. The "pull outs" were woefully inadequate to cover even the short term retirements, let alone those a few years out.

175 fNWA pilots have retired JUST since the SLI was released. That's right, over half the pilots that were supposed to leave in the next FIVE years are already gone. And guess what? The vast majority of them were at 60, exactly as predicted by the NWA side. The PERP will probably add another 100 to that list. To even get within one order of magnitude in error, the arbitrators would have needed to double the number of pull outs.

Like you, I take a double digit hit in my relative seniority. Seats that I would have held for years before retirement at 60 are now out of reach even if I go to 65.

The DAL guys hue and cry about what they lost. In reality, they got EXACTLY what they wanted, and are now QQing with buyer's remorse. They might have been better off with the dynamic plan with 5 year base/aircraft fences.

The DAL MEC tried to quell that remorse by saying "well, there isn't going to be any movement, so all of this is moot...everyone will stay where they are", but that doesn't look like that's going to work out so well.

The night the SLI was released, it was VERY apparent to anyone who could read that there was exactly one avenue to make up what fNWA guys lost, and that was bid up now to the best paying seat you can hold, or at least increase your QoL, because moving up down the road is out of the question. No one should be surprised that fNWA guys will do what they can to mitigate the damage.

I will agree that the NWA guys didn't get stomped quite as hard as the Western or PanAm guys, but maybe that's why some of the DAL guys are pissed...someone actually put up a fight and got a couple of good jabs in.

Nu

EXACTLY right NU. You nailed it.

ALL that matters is seniority. Notice how every argument ends up with how lucky NWA guys will be to be on a DAL widebody and IGNORES the double digit loss of relative seniority that the NWA guy will enjoy around 8 years down the road? Hey, the list is ancient news and most moved on long ago....but I'll respond when told that a double digit loss of relative seniority in a few years is a "windfall" or is "made up for" by gaining 2% relative the day the list was published or how the pull and plug. Acute Myopia....too bad that's not medically disqualifying.

 

[DTW320]

Now, on a less serious note, Delta brings approx. 100 unfenced widebodies to the party...compared to what? 30 or so from NW? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to calculate which group makes out in that deal....and I'll say it..(as I try to stifle myself)...good for you!!!...it's called a "fair and equitable seniority list". For all you junior NW types with seniority equivalent to DAL 2000, 2001, 2007 hires naively thinking you'll be a shoe-in for a DAL south international WB position....well you're naive. With the economic downturn/capacity cutbacks/displacements (800 in the south alone according to your sincere ambassador of good will...nuguy...oh yeah but no displacements in the north...even with a whole category of WB disappearing...amazing!) the seniority/positions will be rationalized... much more senior.... for every 5 NWs bidding for a south position, there will be 7 DALs of equal seniority bidding the same. No doubt many of you more senior commuters flying NBs in the north will make it to WBs in the south with an easier commute, but not everybody who thinks they can hold that now will get that award.

This PERFECTLY embodies the thought process of these guys: The ONLY thing that matters is that you will get to fly a big shiny DAL airplane. Your place on the seniority list now and DEFINITELY in the future on that big shiny DAL airplane shouldn't matter one bit to you. CLASSIC! SJS is alive and well at DAL-S

 

[PuffDriver]

This PERFECTLY embodies the thought process of these guys: The ONLY thing that matters is that you will get to fly a big shiny DAL airplane. Your place on the seniority list now and DEFINITELY in the future on that big shiny DAL airplane shouldn't matter one bit to you. CLASSIC! SJS is alive and well at DAL-S

Blah, blah, blah. The facts are the facts. Your seniority moves up. Period. In 8 years, there could be another mandatory retirement change. NWA could have gone out of business, so could have Delta. There could be another merger. In 20 years you catch right back up. We can pick an arbitrary number of years ad nauseam. What is NOW is that NWA pilots have access to well over twice the widebody flying that they had via lack of fences. Big shiny airplane nothing. In 8 years man may be extinct. SJS=more dollars.

So stuff it. Your arguments are circular and illogical.

 

[propdog]

Damn people....give it rest. Seniority list have been awarded. Everybody plz bid what they want. Quit bitc!ing and complaining.

 

[BrickTop]

There really is no one factor suggesting any recovery is near. All the airlines do anymore is cut capacity, merge and downsize fleets, furlough and over work remaining crews. No attrition to retirement, as legacy carriers farm out more flying. The younger pilot group sees growth at their regionals but with no movement above hence no replacement of legacy senior pilots. The future will hold far less pilots period, as we bring in larger fleet types of the 70-120 seat range and reduce frequency and overlap with mergers. The ball is dark and murky. The best we can hope for is a total system revamp comprised of EMB-190 and CRJ-1000 type fleets with positions that pay $80,000 after 15 years of service.

 

[Monster Buck]

Point me to the way to the cliff, I'm just gonna jump. Its all over anyway.

 

[DTW320]

Blah, blah, blah. The facts are the facts. Your seniority moves up. Period. In 8 years, there could be another mandatory retirement change. NWA could have gone out of business, so could have Delta. There could be another merger. In 20 years you catch right back up. We can pick an arbitrary number of years ad nauseam. What is NOW is that NWA pilots have access to well over twice the widebody flying that they had via lack of fences. Big shiny airplane nothing. In 8 years man may be extinct. SJS=more dollars.

So stuff it. Your arguments are circular and illogical.

You're right. All that matters is right now. Live for Today! Man could be extinct tomorrow! What good will that seniority # do ya then? Wow, such Non-Circular Logic ya got there. So, why do we negotiate long contracts?

Like I said, it's ancient history now. "Don't piss on your leg and tell you it's raining????" How bout "Don't take double digit relative seniority from me and tell me I got a windfall"?

Stuff it yourself, with someone who is dumb enough to believe your misinformed drivel. Hey at least when I'm stuck seniority-wise in the future as DAL-S pilots enjoy NWA attrition I'll be stuck on a shiny DAL airplane. What I'm flying is really all that matters to real men ya know.

 

[PuffDriver]

You're right. All that matters is right now. Live for Today! Man could be extinct tomorrow! What good will that seniority # do ya then? Wow, such Non-Circular Logic ya got there. So, why do we negotiate long contracts?

Like I said, it's ancient history now. "Don't piss on your leg and tell you it's raining????" How bout "Don't take double digit relative seniority from me and tell me I got a windfall"?

Stuff it yourself, with someone who is dumb enough to believe your misinformed drivel. Hey at least when I'm stuck seniority-wise in the future as DAL-S pilots enjoy NWA attrition I'll be stuck on a shiny DAL airplane. What I'm flying is really all that matters to real men ya know.

Yup, and you sure won't enjoy future Delta attrition. Everyone retires eventually. The rest is just blather. It's ok, we're already getting used to the mentality. LIke you thinking it is about sjs. It is not. It is about pay and qol. Two things drastically lacking at NWA. OVer double the widebodies, longevity restored for furloughees, and the emergence of a DC plan. You got a windfall. Which is fine. So quit bitching and I'll shut up. Deal?

You guys are closing in fast on Joe Merchant for biggest crybabies.

 

[DTW320]

Yup, and you sure won't enjoy future Delta attrition. Everyone retires eventually. The rest is just blather. It's ok, we're already getting used to the mentality. LIke you thinking it is about sjs. It is not. It is about pay and qol. Two things drastically lacking at NWA. OVer double the widebodies, longevity restored for furloughees, and the emergence of a DC plan. You got a windfall. Which is fine. So quit bitching and I'll shut up. Deal?

You guys are closing in fast on Joe Merchant for biggest crybabies.

Everyone retires eventually. NWA guys will just retire about 10% less senior than they would have. Whatever. Let's see. The huge number of widebodies like the ER pay the same as the 757 at NWA. Pays the same but hey! it's a "widebody" so that should be enough for us to overlook the double digit relative seniority LOSS. SJS. Emergence of a DC plan? Did you mean "Emergency" of a DC Plan? I'm currently getting about 19% in my Targeted DC plan. What % will I get when I "windfall" to the DAL plan? At least I get my 150% premium for all credit over 80 for a few more months before that vanishes...I think around the time I start paying almost double for health insurance.

Crybabies? Nope. Like I said before, it's ancient history and was accepted a long time ago. Calling you out on unadulterated BS does not = crying about the contract or SLI. It's about accuracy. You've shown you have none. Quit spewing BS about how 10+% loss of relative seniority = a windfall and I'll shut up. Deal?

Windfall your ass. More like a slip & fall. You're clueless. Have fun in your Shiny Jet!