And So It Begins

jonjuan

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The contracts you have with the customers would make it very difficult for Buffet to pull the plug.

Didn't Cessna do so with shares? How many multi million dollar lawsuits there?
 

doh

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Didn't Cessna do so with shares? How many multi million dollar lawsuits there?

It's not a plug pull. They simply close the sales department and fly out the contracts they have, retiring airplanes and laying off as contracts expire.
 

jetwash

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Didn't Cessna do so with shares? How many multi million dollar lawsuits there?

Rumors around Flops is that DAC bought out the contracts from Citation Air and is flying their former owners until they expire with hopes of signing them to a Flops contract in the future.
Already a few Pax who were at CA mentioned that to our crews.
So the frax contracts can apparently be out sourced, the pax may not like it but as long as they are provided with a service I guess all is possible.
 

gutshotdraw

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Didn't Cessna do so with shares? How many multi million dollar lawsuits there?

As mentioned, Shares was much smaller and was able to gradually spool down until DAC picked up the pieces.

Similar situation with Avantair. Niche player and there was no money left for a lawyer to chase.

NetJets, on the other hand, is too big to close overnight and Berkshire is HUGE with REALLY deep pockets. Lawyers LOVE deep pockets.
 

luckydog

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Sounds very similar to the illusion of 'too big to fail'.

As mentioned, Shares was much smaller and was able to gradually spool down until DAC picked up the pieces.

Similar situation with Avantair. Niche player and there was no money left for a lawyer to chase.

NetJets, on the other hand, is too big to close overnight and Berkshire is HUGE with REALLY deep pockets. Lawyers LOVE deep pockets.
 

BentOver

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Not saying it would happen....

But I'm pretty sure Warren Buffett and his lawyers, execs, CEO's etc etc, can pretty much do whatever they want...

Pilots are pretty smart, but I'm fairly certain the 3rd-4th richest man in the world is a bit smarter when it comes to business
 

el raton

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Might I humbly beg that you guys push to make a 12 hour max duty day a new industry standard.
 

BlueNose

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As mentioned, Shares was much smaller and was able to gradually spool down until DAC picked up the pieces.

Similar situation with Avantair. Niche player and there was no money left for a lawyer to chase.

NetJets, on the other hand, is too big to close overnight and Berkshire is HUGE with REALLY deep pockets. Lawyers LOVE deep pockets.


There's a fine line between confidence and hubris. Any company or division can be shut down. Sure there's risk to it, but it's quantifiable. If the ongoing operating risk becomes greater than the wind-down risk, don't think WB won't pull that trigger. BH is at heart an insurance company, so I think it's safe to say WB already has a detailed study of the risk ($) involved in winding down NJ. The future operating risk has a much greater degree of uncertainty, but ultimately comes down to projected costs vs projected revenues.


Employee future compensation isn't the only, and certainly not the biggest cost factor, but sure can become the tipping point if it's a finely balanced difference. You need to extract the max compensation without threatening the future viability of the business. Unfortunately, it's nearly impossible to tell what that is until several years after the contract is signed. But if you don't acknowledge that it could go either way, you might be in for a rude surprise. Good luck.
 

gutshotdraw

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Oh, I absolutely agree a wind-down is possible at NetJets. I harbor no illusions that the company is "too big to fail."

But it would be exactly that: a wind-down. The current legal exposure for an "overnight" shutdown is far too great.

The bigger risk at the moment is that the management team seems to be actively DIScouraging share sales in favor of ENcouraging Marquis card sales. This presents a number of concerning issues.

1. It dilutes the "exclusive" service mentality that originally built the company and replaces it with a "block charter" concept that can be purchased at any number of reputable charter carriers.

2. Opens the door for the company to sell off trips more easily in the event of work slowdown or stoppage. It's easier to blow off a card holder than the folks that actually OWN the airplane.

3. Makes it MUCH easier (eventually) for Berkshire to cut bait if they do decide the business is no longer worth the opportunity cost of their investment dollars.

4. Reduces the legal exposure because the OWNER of a share can demonstrate much greater financial harm to a jury than can a card-holder that merely owns some time in a plane in the event of a shutdown.

Bottom line: A potential long-term threat to the leverage and career prospects of all NetJets pilots.

That's why we need to act relatively quickly to extract an improved but viable contract and push Hansell the HE11 out the door before he completely destroys the place.
 
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Some guy

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BH bought us for what, 800m? Last I heard we're valued at 2 billion? The debt is getting paid down quickly, possibly by the end of the year. Uncle Warren isn't getting any younger. What happens when he passes? Will the board see a no debt, 1.2b ROI get out now while the gettin's good and sell us off? I certainly hope not, but I don't know how businessmen think either.

On another note, while numerous contracts are in negotiation there is one difference I've noticed from the '05 '06 (or whatever the date was) talks. Last time the company was talking about how much money was being lost even though it wasn't necessarily true. (Company negotiating tactics?) Now they've continued speaking about profits. Does this mean the powers that be are negotiating a more fair game this time around? Sure they've asked for concessions, but isn't that what they're supposed to do? They ask for less, you ask for more, and then meet in the middle.

SG
 

gret

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Oh and how does a company with no assets get valued at 2b?

...and only makes funny money?

The $2 billion is what BH would have to pay someone to take it off their hands...the buyback liability is massive.
 

BlueNose

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But REAL growth and REAL profit won't be possible until the man in Omaha realizes you make MORE money with a happy, professionally respected, and well-compensated work force than with bitter, angry, fearful employees.

I don't know, Options seems to have built a whole business model off the latter approach. Maybe WB read a copy of Management by Trust?
 
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ghostrider64

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The point of this is, at least one organized group is willing to put their asses on the line, AGAIN. That seems to have been missing with their competitors groups. You get what you fight for, or you get table scraps. Thus far the NJ group seems to always develop a fighters mentality and they seem to out pace every other group of fractional pilots, maybe you should ask yourselves why that is.

For those that feel this is risky, I say it isn't as risky as it was during the ORIGINAL PICKET AT OMAHA many years ago. Right in WB's smug face.

SELF WORTH.....GET SOME!
 

dime line

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The point of this is, at least one organized group is willing to put their asses on the line, AGAIN. That seems to have been missing with their competitors groups. You get what you fight for, or you get table scraps. Thus far the NJ group seems to always develop a fighters mentality and they seem to out pace every other group of fractional pilots, maybe you should ask yourselves why that is.

For those that feel this is risky, I say it isn't as risky as it was during the ORIGINAL PICKET AT OMAHA many years ago. Right in WB's smug face.

SELF WORTH.....GET SOME!

Well Said
 

CRAWDADDY

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For those that feel this is risky, I say it isn't as risky as it was during the ORIGINAL PICKET AT OMAHA many years ago. Right in WB's smug face.

They didn't see that coming and they tried to make us go away when we showed up. People got to see his Scrooge side
 

LAZYB

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LAZYB

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^^^^^ Ding!^^^^^^

Let's say we have 4000 owners. If BH pulled the plug tomorrow, those 4000 owners would file a class-action, breach of contract suit the next day. Even if each of those owners was only awarded ONE million dollars (a bare minimum in what would be a slam-dunk case), that's FOUR BILLION DOLLARS.

Even Uncle Warren would hiccup over that number.

The threat of Berkshire "closing the doors" at NetJets has ALWAYS been overblown. To me, it was NEVER a possibility.

Moving forward, there IS money to be made here. Serious money. But REAL growth and REAL profit won't be possible until the man in Omaha realizes you make MORE money with a happy, professionally respected, and well-compensated work force than with bitter, angry, fearful employees.

Anyone got a Dilly Bar? Warren values them more than Netjets...
 

pilotyip

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ROTFLMAO recalls, hah,hah... :smash:

I have no idea what you speak of.
Just speaking of a few NJ furloughees pushing rubber dog crap into dark Mexican airports in the middle of the night in aged out junk that would think that going back to NJ would be like going to heaven.
 
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