And so it begins... UAir East pilots protest

[Lear70]

Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Pilot ire plagues US Airways merger

By Staff and wire reports
Sunday, May 13, 2007

Last weekend, shortly after US Airways pilots learned where they rank on a long-awaited seniority list, the airline's on-time performance plunged.

Half the Tempe, Ariz., airline's flights were delayed last Sunday -- levels not seen since its March meltdown -- but without the reservation-systems problems or winter weather to blame. Coincidence or concerted slowdown?


The airline attributed the poor performance to packed planes and said it held flights so it didn't strand passengers.


But pilots privately told a different story. They said some former US Airways pilots on the East Coast -- frustrated that many now rank below less-tenured America West pilots -- didn't show up for work, did the minimum required or took their time on routine items.


After the list came out, a Charlotte-based pilot warned in a posting on a union message board: "Get ready because this is about to get real ugly."

Last Sunday, 50 percent of US Airways' flights did not take off within 14 minutes of scheduled departure, the government's criteria for a delay. The airline had a 70 percent on-time departure record over the previous six Sundays, said US Airways' spokesman Morgan Durrant.



Of the more than dozen major airports in the Northeast, including Pittsburgh, only 30 percent of the 93 flights departing that day left on time, he said. The carrier could not immediately isolate the track record that day at Pittsburgh International Airport alone.



But Durrant did not blame last Sunday's tardy takeoffs on US Airways' pilots. Rather, more planes did not depart on time because of various customer-service issues, he said.



The Air Line Pilots Association, however, believes departure delays may have been caused by disgruntled US Airways pilots -- especially in the East, where the pre-merged US Airways pilots are based.



"I think (the delays) were a byproduct of the frustration our pilots feel right now," said Arnie Gentile, spokesman for ALPA's US Airways Master Executive Council. He noted there was no "coordinated effort or movement" by the union to delay flights.



Gentile said the arbitrator's recent ruling about merging the two pilots groups together unfairly meant, for instance, that a three-year first officer from the old America West Airlines could be promoted to captain ahead of a 20-year first officer from the old US Airways.



"There should be no windfall from one (group) at the expense of the other," said Gentile of the arbitrator's decision. The pilots' leadership intends to solicit the help of ALPA's international union leaders to get the ruling changed, he said.


The tension and fallout over seniority underscores the significant challenges ahead -- for the company and potentially for travelers -- as US Airways tries to clear the highest hurdle of its 20-month old America West-US Airways merger: combining its 36,000 employees into a single work force.
The airline is in contract negotiations with four major employee groups at once: pilots, flight attendants, mechanics and baggage handlers.



Executives need to bring the employees from both airlines under a single contract.


Until then, the airlines are effectively separate, with their own planes and flight crews. That has fostered an "Us vs. Them" attitude and prevented the airline from creating a united culture, so critical to the success of mergers.


US Airways isn't the only carrier grappling with a labor issue, although its problems are far more widespread than those facing other airlines.


American pilots recently asked the airline for a 30 percent raise and noted executives' bonuses and stock-option riches. Northwest's unions are balking at a big bankruptcy exit-pay package for that airline's CEO, and United workers are banding together to protest executive compensation.


At US Airways, rancor is steadily mounting, and the airline hasn't begun to tackle sticky issues like pay.


Employees are angry that executives already have seen a payoff from the merger while their negotiations are dragging on. They don't like the company's general stance that it can't afford across-the-board raises.


On March 27, US Airways pilots picketed at Pittsburgh International Airport to protest slow progress in post-merger contract negotiations.


There are union campaigns suggesting employees only do their own jobs, and even deliberate attempts by some employees to get management's attention by slowing down the operation or running up costs.


In interviews, some pilots say they are purposely taxiing slowly on takeoff and landing and waiting until just before takeoff to report problems, delaying the flight.


Frustrated mechanics say they are dragging out maintenance checks and taking their time getting to the gate when a problem is reported, and baggage handlers aren't loading as many bags on the conveyors as they usually do.


John McIlvenna, chairman of the America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, disavows any campaign to slow the operation. Many work actions are illegal under federal law.


But, he says, "I think a lot of people have lost the motivation to go the extra mile."


Gary Richardson, president of the America West branch of the Association of Flight Attendants, said, "Is their (employees') heart into this? No. There's been too many broken promises."


Both US Airways CEO Doug Parker and President Scott Kirby, the airline's labor point person, concede morale is low.


They insist, though, that they see no significant evidence employee actions are hindering operations.


"There are isolated incidents and maybe things that wouldn't have happened if we had a contract right now, but they are isolated incidents," Parker said.


Shannon Anderson, a Rice University management professor who studies airlines, says the labor negotiations are critical for US Airways at this moment.


"That is going to be the straw that either breaks the camel's back or lets them move forward to remedy some of their operational problems," she said. "That's the thing I'm watching most."

Well, I think that sums it up nicely... "Merge at your own peril."

Wonder if Parker has ANY idea what the problem is?

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Dude...go away.

 

[Lear70]

Dude...go away.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

"I don't make the news, I just report it."

Incidentally, if you don't like what I post, there's this neat little feature called "ignore".

Otherwise, just don't read it. All it takes is a little will power, which is why you don't see me on the other thread I said I was done with. It's called an "unsubscribe from discussion" link in the emails you get.

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Lear,
The story is a couple days old but I am sure you knew that. Also, as an industry insider, I am sure you knew what parts of this article were spot on and which were 180 off. I am also sure you know who the unnamed pilots are since your knowledge is so far advanced. Seriously man, if it is a 190 FO seat you are after with Daddy's company at some point down the road be patient, it will happen. You do not have to stir the pot; we will be hiring off the street soon enough without your input.

 

[BenderGonzales]

He works for AirTran now. Ahhh remember the roaring 90s when people actually were leaving AirTran to come to US Airways?

Good times.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,
The story is a couple days old but I am sure you knew that. Also, as an industry insider, I am sure you knew what parts of this article were spot on and which were 180 off. I am also sure you know who the unnamed pilots are since your knowledge is so far advanced. Seriously man, if it is a 190 FO seat you are after with Daddy's company at some point down the road be patient, it will happen. You do not have to stir the pot; we will be hiring off the street soon enough without your input.

*snicker*

Yeah, that's what I want. A 190 F/O seat...

I'm happy where I am, for now, barring a crappy contract or a similar Midwest integration where my upgrade gets delayed substantially.

Even then, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I would EVER go to work for UAir or NWA... they're both about the same ranking on my happy meter.

Incidentally no, this story is only 1 day old (released yesterday, check the date), and I just heard about it today.

Secondly yes, I'm well aware what parts were true and which parts were speculation. The hard to hide parts are the DOT numbers; those are a matter of public record.

Going from 70% on time to 30% on time in one week without an event such as a hurricane or locusts is a pretty clear signal.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

*snicker*

Yeah, that's what I want. A 190 F/O seat...

I'm happy where I am, for now, barring a crappy contract or a similar Midwest integration where my upgrade gets delayed substantially.

Even then, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I would EVER go to work for UAir or NWA... they're both about the same ranking on my happy meter.

Incidentally no, this story is only 1 day old (released yesterday, check the date), and I just heard about it today.

Secondly yes, I'm well aware what parts were true and which parts were speculation. The hard to hide parts are the DOT numbers; those are a matter of public record.

Going from 70% on time to 30% on time in one week without an event such as a hurricane or locusts is a pretty clear signal.

Here's the problem that everyone needs to remember. Doug and company are skilled in the art of low ball tactics. This tactic will not be successful on a group of employees that have just witnessed this company earn half a billion dollars. Now In my heart of hearts I feel Doug will side with AWA as this was really his baby. I also have it on very good authority that the company will protect it'self in that it will place a/c where ever it needs in order to be successful. I also expect Douglas will make a statement soon that the new airways is in trouble and looking at BK unless it merges again, this after we posted the highest profit of all carriers!!

WD.

 

[Schwanker]

Lear-
Thanks for the post. I haven't seen it yet. Not sure why the others have their panties in a wad.

Schwanker

 

[CoAlpha]

No really,

Who gives a crap, Usairways is worse than many regional airlines. Thank ALPO for that. Why would anyone stick around that crapfest?


Next question.

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

There is plenty more money to rape before us execs BK the cow. As long as the employees get back in their place. Westies are weak minded. Easties are all talk. Looks like I'll get paid either way. Enjoy your vienna franks, losers.

PS Frank says hi to C. Munn.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

No really,

Who gives a crap, Usairways is worse than many regional airlines. Thank ALPO for that. Why would anyone stick around that crapfest?


Next question.

Not sure what your point is but do you work here?? If not how would you know anything about the inside of this place??

 

[Green]

1 Doug and company are skilled in the art of low ball tactics. "



2 "I also have it on very good authority that the company will protect it'self in that it will place a/c where ever it needs in order to be successful. "


WD.

1) Unfortunately so is our JNC. We ask for 165/hr while AA is asking for what, 240/hr? Not to mention they have a retirement, work rules, and medical.

2) What are you talking about with the statement that the company will protect itself by placing a/c where it needs to? I don't follow you. Are you saying he'll move aircraft between certificates??????

 

[AA717driver]

Boy, this post really lured some cranks outta their holes...

Good post, Lear. Thanks. TC

P.S.--Not all of us have access to the Pittsburgh Daily News or whatever it's called.

 

[Hpilot]

Not sure what your point is but do you work here?? If not how would you know anything about the inside of this place??

He's obviously someone that either got turned down by US or AWA. I'd just ignore.

 

[PHXFLYR]

He works for AirTran now. Ahhh remember the roaring 90s when people actually were leaving AirTran to come to US Airways?

Good times.

But dumb people....


PHXFLYR

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

"I don't make the news, I just report it."

Incidentally, if you don't like what I post, there's this neat little feature called "ignore".

Otherwise, just don't read it. All it takes is a little will power, which is why you don't see me on the other thread I said I was done with. It's called an "unsubscribe from discussion" link in the emails you get.

In the "US Airways Loosing Respect" thread I called you out. After making ignorant comments concerning the seniority arbitration I asked you if you read the arbitrators explaination.

Have you? BTW, if the answer is no, quit posting your nonsense.

Go back to whatever airline you fly for and let us worry about the new list, ok?

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Lear70, here is some research I've done. I went back to a few threads and quoted some of the bologna you've posted:

I have no dog in this fight either - my old man retired UAir about 3 years ago.

If you don't "have a dog in this fight" why do you keep posting your devisive opinions?

You somehow think that the furloughed UAir guys should go BENEATH the 20-something that has 30+ years still left?

And that's fair HOW?

I got news for you...not all new hires in the last 4 years are "20 somethings." But for those of us who are...am I supposed to say "you should come out of furlough and be senior to me because, gosh darnit, you're older and you deserve it" or "I'll just spend 8 more years as an FO to help you out"?

If they can get an extra 3-5 years out of it in their current seats, then good for them, especially with the ME-ME-ME attitude going on in the West (not all of you, but enough to p*ss me off and I don't even work there).

Again, who is getting bumped out of their seat? And as for the "me, me, me attitude"...isn't that what the East guys are displaying when they demand DOH? So I'm selfish because I want relative integration but they are not selfish when they want DOH?

I also don't necessarily agree that UAir was going to liquidate. There was never any hard proof of that, but evidently enough inuendo and suggestive evidence that the Arbitrator was convinced.

You don't know what you are talking about. Again, you need to read the Arbitrator's explaination. He didn't estimate where the two airlines would be in the future. He looked at their present state (as of May 2005) and noted that AWA was doing well and US Airways was not.

I wouldn't say the AWA pilots should have been stapled or furloughed, but without fences they just got handed a lottery ticket worth an extra $1 Million on their career earnings.

AWA pilots? There's no "probably" about it. Like I said, the average AWA pilot will make over a million more over their career because of this ruling.

What is your source of this info? I'm not interested in speculations. The average AWA pilot? Aren't all of us westies "average AWA pilots"? Who on the West is not an "average AWA pilot"? Define "average AWA pilot" please.

Like I said... you guys want to bash the UAir guys for the way they behaved at the table, then you come out with this righteous crap that says you're somehow justified getting the huge windfall the arbitrator gave you.

Huh? There was no windfall.

You're not making your pilot group look very good. But then again, we DO live in the "Me-me-me" era of aviation. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

Talk about righteous crap.

I honestly don't know if I agree with that. US pilots' career expectations, assuming the carrier would have remained in business, would probably be much better than they will be once they're bumped out of their widebody seats in the last 5-10 years of their career.

I want you to cite to me exactly the source of this seat displacement stuff. If you can't then quit posting it.

Again, great way to split hairs and not really address the issues. Your debating skills (or lack thereof) are absolutely astounding.

Geesh. Look who's talking. I've called you out before on other threads and so far the only response I've gotten was "if you don't like my post then use the ignore feature..."

Poor reasoning? Your lack of solid facts in your "debate" don't support such a claim.

Gentlemen, and ladies, I'm sorry you have to deal with someone slinging mud with little facts or solid debate to add. You have to understand, PCL Dude is coming from a regional where I regularly rocked the boat against unsafe management practices... and succeeded, and is having a slight inferiority problem after I left for greener pastures.

Most of the stuff you post on here is your unsupported opinion, yet, you have the nerve to tell someone that they have "no solid facts in their "debate"".

Again, I work for AirTran. I never worked for UAir. My dad is retired UAir (has been for a while), and I don't know anyone there anymore. I don't have an agenda and don't "want it my way" or "to benEfit my people".

You don't have an agenda? Why do you keep mentioning your dad? Are we supposed to think you're a credible source if info because your dad worked there?

Personally, I'd just take all my sick time, accrued vacation, spend it all while applying at Netjets when I was approaching the date where a West guy would be able to bump me out of my seat, hopefully benefiting from some type of retirement deal in the new contract (something is better than nothing), then leave for a NJA or another corporate gig.

Do I need to ask again?

Can you PROVE they were on the verge of death?

Can you prove they weren't?

No one allows a major with that many leases to just shut down. Nearly destroyed some banks back in the day when EAL and PanAm did. Bankers are smarter than that.

Are you kidding? US Airways was probably grasping to hold on to those leases. Do you know how many operators overseas are willing to pay higher leases for 737's and 757's?

No one wants to use the FACTS behind the situation, they simply want to use what they "feel" or "believe" would have happened.

I've been crushing you with the facts.



Lear70, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But you have made so many comments concerning things that just aren't true. I'm gonna call you on it every time.

 

[Lear70]

If you don't "have a dog in this fight" why do you keep posting your devisive opinions?

Because I have these little things called "morals" and "ethics" that make me irritated when someone gets hosed in this profession. Do a little more research back and you'll see me get just as upset when Gojets started up, when Freedom started undercutting Mesa, etc, etc. and I don't work at either of THOSE carriers either.

Again, who is getting bumped out of their seat? And as for the "me, me, me attitude"...isn't that what the East guys are displaying when they demand DOH? So I'm selfish because I want relative integration but they are not selfish when they want DOH?

Again, you're just talking, not listening.

I've said REPEATEDLY, though it's convenient for you to ignore it, that the East guys were WRONG to demand DOH, were WRONG to try to hose you guys that way, and now have paid for it. I personally believe part of the arbitrator's award was to spank the East guys for their lack of cooperation.

And, for the record, the *possibility* exists, when age 65 ruling gets passed, if the widebody aircraft are moved, only the top 517 pilots are protected in the East. I can't find ANY mention that the rest of the East pilots are protected if the aircraft are moved to a different domicile.

So, if they're moved, it goes to the new seniority list for bidding rights onto them. Bids that pilot #518 and below on the UAir list believed they'd be moving into.

You don't know what you are talking about. Again, you need to read the Arbitrator's explaination. He didn't estimate where the two airlines would be in the future. He looked at their present state (as of May 2005) and noted that AWA was doing well and US Airways was not.

I've read the explanation, and I believe it proves he lacks enough knowledge of the industry to make some of the claims he made. If he used an outside aviation consultant to come up with those numbers, I would be more inclined to believe his base assumptions, but I failed to see him reference one, if it existed.

What is your source of this info? I'm not interested in speculations. The average AWA pilot? Aren't all of us westies "average AWA pilots"? Who on the West is not an "average AWA pilot"? Define "average AWA pilot" please.

I'm basing it on YOUR existing pay scales, pre-merger versus UAir pay scales pre-merger (post bankruptcy rates), and where those pay scales for widebody flying are likely to return to.

It's pretty easy math. The "average" AWA pilot is someone who still has 20+ years left to their career. Most of you do. Therefore you will, in all likelihood, see widebody command with your seniority integration, and be able to hold it for several years.

That pay is higher than your existing narrowbody pay scale. Only by $22 now, but probably closer to $30+ by the time it's done. Times 80 hours a month is $2,400 a month, $52,500 a year, for the last 10 years of your career is over half a million bucks. And that's just the existing post-bankruptcy pay rate and doesn't include 401k matching (B-fund, whatever) as a percentage on top of that.

Get the math, yet?

Geesh. Look who's talking. I've called you out before on other threads and so far the only response I've gotten was "if you don't like my post then use the ignore feature..."

No, you haven't called me out, you've insulted me. There's a difference.

Post legitimate questions, you get legitimate answers.

Most of the stuff you post on here is your unsupported opinion, yet, you have the nerve to tell someone that they have "no solid facts in their "debate"".

And yet you DON'T have any solid facts.

You've asked a bunch of questions in this thread, and stated your "beliefs" without referencing specific sections of the award, nor have you posted any proof to the contrary regarding the age of East pilots and their proximity to retirement, versus West pilots.

Don't disparage me for not providing "facts" when you've provided none of your own.

You don't have an agenda? Why do you keep mentioning your dad? Are we supposed to think you're a credible source if info because your dad worked there?

I don't keep mentioning him. Other people bring him up and keep slamming me with it. Use your reading skills. I only respond with that when addressed with that.

Can you prove they weren't?

Demanding proof when having none of your own is a very feeble argument.

Are you kidding? US Airways was probably grasping to hold on to those leases. Do you know how many operators overseas are willing to pay higher leases for 737's and 757's?

Proof, proof, proof.

PROVE to me that UAir was "grasping to hold on to those leases". PROVE to me, in writing, with proof that a lender had called the leases or was shopping them.

Your LACK of proof for YOUR claims makes YOUR assertions here no more or less believable than mine.

I've been crushing you with the facts.

No, you have YET to post ONE VERIFIABLE FACT. You've done plenty of slamming of me while referencing the award, but have yet to quote the award to PROVE me wrong. THAT would be a FACT.

Everything else is simply your OPINION. Maybe you should learn the difference.

Lear70, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. But you have made so many comments concerning things that just aren't true. I'm gonna call you on it every time.

If you do, better be prepared to back them up with FACTS that are verifiable, from a third, independent source, that we can check.

Otherwise, I'm going to continue believing the way I do, based on the award and the career expectations the West now enjoys that they had no reasonable expectation to prior to the merger.

I'm not saying anyone is a "bad" person at AWA for that; I'm simply saying the arbitrator's ruling was wrong and a bunch of guys in the East are now screwed, many close to the end of their career with no options, and it's very unfortunate and sad to see guys who had been beat to death get beat a little harder, then even sadder to see guys on here acting self-righteous about it. uke:

 

[Captain X]

You two should get a room!

 

[Britpilot]

You two should get a room!

Or a divorce.