Anal retentive a-hole Captains

[Timebuilder]

You make an excellent point.

Two of the three people who have taught me the most about the airplane are the same two guys who seem to have sipped the bubbling liquid when the get in the airplane!

 

[dispatchguy]

A few weeks ago I jumpseated with a mixed crew - a very senior captain and a female F/O I had seen on the crew bus a few times.

When I get abord and ask for the ride, the Cap makes the joke "Did you know that God never intended women to fly?"

"Uhhhhhh, no I answered" very uncomfortably.

"if he did, he would've made the sky pink." then he lets a huge belly laugh. He looks over his shoulder at me with a look on his face as if "who's side are you on - her's or mine?". I just kinda blew it off, but the F/O didnt. As I was securing my roll-aboard in the second observer seat the F/O shot the captain a look that would've killed.

I had just come off a midnite shift and all I wanted to do was fly home. The flight was full and I had to ride up front, which as a dispatcher I usually enjoy - however, not on this trip. It was the beginning of a 4-day together for these two. During the entire flight to ORD they didnt say word one to each other - and spoke to me only once. The tension in the flight deck was soooo present you could've cut it with a knife, to which I attributed to the cap's very off-color remark, especially to a female F/O he had never flown with.

When we got to ORD, there was a "heated discussion" we'll call it over a taxi clearance - the F/O and I heard the clearance clearly, but the captain didnt and started following his own clearance. When we got to the gate (finally!), I thanked the captain for the ride (as I always do), and told the F/O "Have a fun trip!" The look in her eyes was 'yeah right'. Two days later at work they call me over the radio to pass a word to the crew desk that she's going enroute sick after arrival - I'm sure she was fed up with the way he ran a flight deck.

 

[Brother Francis]

It is a matter of perception whether your captain is one of those. Do you really have the experience to make that judgement?

As an FO, I have flown with ARAC's. They are certainly out there. As a captain, I have flown with FO's who's inexperience leads them to believe they know more than they do and who's youth and exuberance leads them to the conclusion that their lifer captain is an ARAC. Those are out there as well.

Last month, a young new hire FO was slightly, but not excessively high at about 300 AGL on final. Throttles came back to near idle.

"More power" No response

"It's gonna drop out from under you" No response. Speed falling off, nose starting down

"You need to get that power in now" No response

I can count on one hand the times I have found it necessary to touch the controls when I was NFP. This was one of them. I reached under and pushed the throttles up.

Lousy landing short of the 1000' markers. Boy was he ticked.

I apologized and politely asserted the necessity of my action in the context of an explanation of the perils of gliding a slow, dirty jet with swept and highly loaded wings. He was not receptive and it began to annoy me. He argued that he was pitching for the speed and that if I had not interfered he would not have landed badly. After hearing that, I was no longer annoyed. I let it ride for now

He, on the other hand, stayed ticked through the turn and the flight back to base. My leg.

At 10 miles and 3000' I dirtied up to the landing configuration. Now he really thought I was an idiot. I set the power for a 700 fpm descent and gave him the controls.

"Your power was at 37% when I pushed your throttles up on that last landing. Pull it back to that and hold your speed with pitch." He did.

3-5 seconds later- "SINK RATE! SINK RATE!"

"See what I mean?"

"Yeah, I do. Thanks for showing me that."

Moral: The captain isn't the idiot the FO thinks he is. Nor is the FO the cocky young buck the captain thinks he is. Unless one chooses not to respect the other.

 

[bobbysamd]

The ARAC as instructor

It is a matter of perception whether your captain is one of those. Do you really have the experience to make that judgement . . . . . Last month, a young new hire FO was slightly, but not excessively high at about 300 AGL on final. Throttles came back to near idle. . . . . I can count on one hand the times I have found it necessary to touch the controls when I was NFP. This was one of them. I reached under and pushed the throttles up . . . . .He argued that he was pitching for the speed and that if I had not interfered he would not have landed badly . . . Moral: The captain isn't the idiot the FO thinks he is. Nor is the FO the cocky young buck the captain thinks he is. Unless one chooses not to respect the other.

Very good post, which I really enjoyed reading. You must have been a flight instructor at one time.

Point made about the captain expecting you to do what you're supposed to do. FO is very much a training position - for Captain, one day, if you're lucky. Notwithstanding the fact that you control speed with power levers (throttle) and altitude with pitch, per the FAA.

 

[cornbread]

As an FO, I have flown with ARAC's. They are certainly out there. As a captain, I have flown with FO's who's inexperience leads them to believe they know more than they do and who's youth and exuberance leads them to the conclusion that their lifer captain is an ARAC. Those are out there as well.

So true.

The bottom line for some reading this thread is that you won't understand some of this until you upgrade. Not because you are unable now, or that they give you a decoder ring as Capt., just a matter of perspective. I think most will agree that before upgrading they heard somewhere "you will understand when you upgrade" but may have dismissed it until they saw for themselves. Enjoy the journey.

As one poster said, leave attitudes on the ground.

This is most definately a career that will be safer due to humility and altruism.

 

[Brother Francis]

Bobby-

You !@#$$%^&*()

You've gone and lit the fuse on the pitch/power/speed/altitude debate.

 

[Timebuilder]

You mean that it's debatable?

 

[Brother Francis]

MUST...RESIST...

 

[Rick1128]

Having been on both sides of the cockpit over the years and have desided to put my $.04 worth in.

There was a comment about doi9ng things the Captain's way. It is my opinion that it depends on the Captain. If it was something that was not covered by SOP's . NO PROBLEM. If it was and was contrary to FAR, I normally would ask the Captain to explain it in detail and why. Most of the Captains I did this with would happily explain. I would say it looks interesting, let me try it on my next leg. If it worked for me, Great. If it didn't, I would tell the Captain, 'It didn't work for me'. Usually with no hard feelings. But I have also flown with a Captain that told me it was because the SOP's were wrong. He was also a Captain that I felt I could not trust, if I did it his way, to protect me if something went wrong.

Once during a sim check, I was asked by the chief pilot to do something outside of SOP's and the Ops Manual. I refused, saying it was outside of policy, then was ordered to do it. So I did it. I found out it was a test to see if flight crews were following policy.

As a Captain, I have asked F/O's to do things a certain way. Usually things not covered by policy. If they were covered by SOP's, I usually worked to change that SOP. When I have told F/O's, not asked, to do something, it was usually safety related and I expect compliance. We discuss it later. Some of the biggest issues I have had about F/O's are things like, I tell the F/O we are running late and will do a quick turn. He tells me he has to use the bathroom. I tell him that do it quick. He leaves the aircraft and returns ten minutes later carrying a soda and several snacks. After I have done my duites and most of his. Then he is upset because I am not happy with his conduct. So there are times that AR Captain is really a AR F/O. Flying an aircraft is a team effort so both sides of the cockpit have to work together.

As for the lifer remarks, I have hired several commuter retirees as pilots and have found them to be some of the best in regards to CRM as anyone else we have hired.

 

[Britpilot]

Did he want you to actually pick up the check-list and eyeball it instead of recite the easy parts like at Gulfstream?

Cornbread, do me a favor- go f.uck yourself! I never went to Gulfstream. You don't know me so why are you getting personal with me on this board?


The guy had been at the regionals for over 5 years. So I have to ask myself, why did he never make it to a Major during those great hiring years in the mid to late 90's? Now other FO's have to deal with his s.hit because he's bitter. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** lifers.

And just how long is it going to take you to get to a "Major"? 10 years maybe, so that would clearly indicate that you have some problem, correct?
With your arrogance I can see why the Captain had a problem with you. There has been discusson here before on "right seat captains" wonder if you fall into this category. You sound like an FNG to me.