AMR sells Executive Airlines

[Publishers]

Error

And just what was the error? and what is the faulty conclusion.

Continental Express and Pinnacle and Freedom and Executive are all the examples. Look at CVG.

 

[surplus1]

Re: Error

And just what was the error? and what is the faulty conclusion.

The error is the concept that a major airline can protect itself from the effects of a strike at a subsidiary like Comair by simply spreading the flying to a "portfolio" of different carriers. The faulty conclusion is that regional airline strikes will be ineffective in the future, because of this so-called diversification.

Continental Express and Pinnacle and Freedom and Executive are all the examples. Look at CVG.

All the examples of what? Comair's flying is still about 23% of the CVG hub. ASA's flying is about 11% of the ATL hub. COEX flying is an even higher percentage of CAL flying. The existing aircraft are all "committed" to their present services. In the event of a work stoppage you can move the airplanes, but that would only be robbing Peter to pay Paul. There is NO major carrier currently operating a regional subsidiary that could afford to lose that traffic. Particularly in the current environment. The idea that they could be "replaced overnight" is a fantasy that suits your purpose but ignores the true logistics.

Another thing that you seem to ignore totally is that the major airline itself has not announced that strike prevention is the reason for their redistribution of the traffic. That is mereley an assumption that folks with your perspective have been trying to sell. Perhaps you are right but there is a 50/50 chance that you are not. Just because you perceive something does not make it so. Especially when your perspective could be held to be clearly slanted in favor of management.

Further to that, the Comair strike was not as effective as it could have been because the International union chose not to fully support it. Some, especially the union, will say that's hog wash but a good look at reality should prove it isn't.

Just think of the EAL strike. That was a sympathy strike in support of a different labor union (the IAM). In the Comair strike, the union could have conducted a sympathy strike of both the Delta and ASA pilots and shut down the entire system. It chose NOT to do that because it did not want a potential PEB (which only delays matters for 60 days) and it really wasn't interested in the Comair pilots. It's focus was on the Delta pilot's contract.

In turn, the Delta pilots had no interest in supporting the causes of Comair pilots let alone to the extent of a strike at Delta. They were far too busy trying to transfer the regional flying to themselves and their intersts were in direct conflict with those of Comair pilots. Besides, many would argue that group would not even strike on its own behalf, let alone in support of a Comair or ASA (which they would prefer did not exist).

There is some question as to whether even the ASA pilots had that level of support. I seriously doubt anyone could have conviced them to put their own jobs on the line in support of Comair. In other words, there is no real will among the pilot groups to support each other (unless it is painless). What support they do give is in the form of rhetoric and some money, plus they don't fly whatever is defined as "struck work" (a definition that carries a lot more politics than meets the eye). For example, do you have any idea at all of the internal pressures attempted to get Comair pilots to change their definition of struck work?

If we had a real labor union, any pilots that walked out (legally) at any subsidiary of the same Company, would immediately result in the sympathy withdrawal of ALL services by union pilots to that Company. In addition, the union (if it was a real union) would solicit the aid of ALL AFLCIO union people and encourage them not to cross the picket lines. That would disrupt a lot more than 100 regional jets.

For example, if the MESA pilots are forced to withdraw their services do you really think the America West pilots will strike in sympathy with their efforts? Hel1, the focus at AWA is already directed at limiting MESA flying ... why on earth would they support a group they are busily trying to eliminate, with the "union's" full support? Granted AWA is a bad example because MESA is not owned by AWA, but if it were, do you think that would happen? Would the U pilots ever have supported the PDT and ALG pilots in a job action? Will the NWA pilots support Mesaba or Pinnacle in that way? Don't hold your breath.

In other words, there are ways to deal with "portfolios". The only real question is whether or not the union has the guts to do so. In the case of the Comair strike, the International union didn't. They did only what they had to do and not one dam*ed thing more. Like it or not, it was a strike by Comair pilots for Comair pilots. The only thing that ALPA did was throw some money at it. Throughout the entire strike, the truth is that the union made every effort to end the strike by coerceing Comair pilots to accept inferior agreements. Only the will of the Comair pilots prevented that from happening, on more than one occasion.

Every true unionist knows that you can't "buy" a strike. When and until ALPA figures that out (I won't hold my breath) an ALPA strike will always be less than fully effective. Comair wasn't the first example and it won't be the last. ALPA pilots have always "flown through" other ALPA pilots on strike. If that continues and I fully expect that it will, ALPA won't "win" any strikes. An objective review of past ALPA strikes will show you how many have really been "won". This (ALPA) is an imaginery "brotherhood" that seldom extends beyond self interest when it comes to labor disputes.

Your theories may come to pass but it won't be because of an effective management counter with "portfolios". It will be because we all belong to an Association, not a labor union. Not only that but it is an "association" that readily and openly discriminates against some of its members in favor of others of its members. Management's knowledge of that discrimination will continue to work against the causes of regional pilots as long as the ALPA maintains that flawed policy. Management hasn't reivented the wheel with portfolios, we (the union) have given them the means to defeat us ourselves; on a silver platter.

The usefulness of such an association is highly questionable in the context of being a labor union.

 

[Publishers]

Agree

One thing that we do agree on is that ALPA basically did not care about and just wanted the strike settled at Comair.

I think that the issues here go well beyond strike aversion. The gradual but nevertheless separation of wholly owned carriers does a number of things that the carrier finds important. A non pilot issue one is raise cash. This is critical to them during this time. Scope will eventually be killed in this program as well which is a pilot issue.

As these regionals become more independant, they will have to end up being competitive with each other on a direct basis. Some of that has to come from flying for more than your carrier.

Another issue will be the diminishing of flow through, either way. It is a pain in the butt and will go.

Major carriers thought that they needed to own and control their regionals and have found out that they do not.

Frankly I do not see now or in the future any interest by the major pilots in the regionals problems and in the future, their will likely be even less togetherness of regional pilots.

 

[csmith]

clarification

As more shots have been taken at the Delta pilot group, I will simply clarify the following:

--Comair got exactly the level of support which they requested via joint venture with the Delta pilots and the ASA pilots, in remarkable cooperation with the front forces of the company

--Delta pretty much set up and ran the Comair strike center in MCO, dunno about CVG

--it is more than likely that the company's figure of loss due to the Comair strike is as inflated as they can get it

--ALPA allows the carriage of pax through a striking carrier's operation because it is not the passengers which are to be affected--it is the company

--yours truly walked side by side with the Comair pilots during the strike as well as contributed financially outside of a mandated assessment. Not exactly "painless".

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Csmith's thread drift post essentially boils down to one more clarification, if the pilots of Executive choose to strike, they can count on little more support from their counterparts at American mainline than window dressing.

 

[AAflyer]

Which brings in the main difference with Executive, geography. You can't simply fly in and pick up some pax and redistribute them.

San Juan is isolated, and gives the Executive pilots another layer of protection. Unlike ASA flying into cities that Comair flew into and redistributing PAX through ATL over CVG.

AAflyer