AMR -- how does it look going forward

[shon7]

How are things at American Airlines? Since they got their concessions in place there has been talk of further cuts needed to be "competitive" -- but are there any other strategies being pursued in terms of increasing revenue? I met a manager at AA the other day and she stated that "employees are hanging on by their morale" (whatever that means).

Any rumors on the AE Spinoff? Is that a possibility?

 

[Swede]

In a brief summary, no, there is nothing at American to make us think Arpey is a new C.R. Smith or even a Bob Crandall, a guy with new ideas. His "vision" consists of slashing everything. The F/A's are absolutely whacked with some of the worst scheduling in the business, the average pilot has lost about 25%, in extreme cases upwards of 45% of their pay.

The good news - planes are packed, but margins still low due to fuel costs. AA retirements are set to boom in the next few years. Haven't heard anythiing about Eagle, except they hate AA due to limits put on RJ expansion. I'll never forget the Eagle guy a few years back with a button that had something like "80 for 80 for 80" meaning "I'll fly an MD80, for 80 hrs/month for $80k/yr". Apparently these buttons were common at other airlines with labor issues. I wanted to punch him.

 

[Starlizard]

"the average pilot has lost about 25%, in extreme cases upwards of 45% of their pay."

and some ('bout 2,500) 100% of their pay cut.

 

[eaglefly]

I understand where you're coming from swede.

A while back, I met an AA pilot who considered me a "hobbiest" for not flying a "real airliner".

I wanted to do more than punch him.

Just before that I watched the ethically bankrupt members of the APA attempt to
unilaterally re-write Suppliment W/Letter 3 to the APA's advantage while AT THE SAME
TIME falsely represent to both Eagle pilots and the general public that our collective
interests were cohesive and parrallel.

WELL beyond punching here.

After the DECADES of shabby treatment by the APA (and many AA pilots), Eagle pilots
have little empathy towards your tale of woe. Dispite all that we tried to hold out an
olive branch but your dirtbags at the APA stabbed us in the back with it.

At least there is no more "gray areas", between our two groups anymore.

Thank you for reminding us all.

 

[fxbat]

"I'll never forget the Eagle guy a few years back with a button that had something like "80 for 80 for 80" meaning "I'll fly an MD80, for 80 hrs/month for $80k/yr". Apparently these buttons were common at other airlines with labor issues. I wanted to punch him."

Ok tough guy, it looks like you may get your wet dream of flying an RJ or CJ or whatever it’s called that I am not qualified to fly. (Really ask f-lee Bailey or your buds that still ware around there scope badges) Please let me hear you mouth off, please. I would like to be reminded why I will never up grade, and how you deserve my job, you piece of flow thru crap.

 

[furloughfodder]

Little Eaglets

If you Eagle guys hate AA so much why are you filling a grievance to "flow-through" to AA ahead of actual furloughed AA pilots?

 

[eaglefly]

"Little Eaglets"

See what I mean folks ?

This pompous attitude of dominance and superiority has been around for many years
and is the CAUSE (not a by-product) of the "anti-AA" attitude at Eagle.

The attitude of many at Eagle regarding the APA and SOME (not all) AA pilots was their
own making.

The greivance you talk of was initiated by the Eagle ALPA MEC because of an
understanding as a result of statements on the APA's interpretation of Supp W/Letter 3
based on Jim Sovich's testimony.

Personally, I doubt that will happen as AMR interprets this issue differently than Eagle
ALPA.

If you don't like the "anti-AA" attitude at Eagle then why did YOUR union and MANY of
your pilots cultivate and nurture it so well over the years ?

 

[C-150ETOPS]

"I'll never forget the Eagle guy a few years back with a button that had something like "80 for 80 for 80" meaning "I'll fly an MD80, for 80 hrs/month for $80k/yr".


Swede,

I remember those buttons well, mostly on someone sneering at me on the employee parking bus. I finally realized that guys like him weren't the problem. It's the 70% avg of AA guys that vote to cut their own nuts off during the 1997 vote,and last years turd that have destroyed this job.

Think about it. Around 1992-95 when those buttons were around, I would have thought a senior AE 14 year pilot would have been the average guy to fly 80 hours for $80,000 on the MD80. The sick thing is that a 14 year AA pilot now makes EXACTLY the same $80,000 in 1993 dollars if you account for the rise in CPI since then, and the AA guy has to fly 83 hours to even get that.

If you want to fantasize about punching someone, walk into any busy AA ops and start swinging. 3 out of 4 punches would be dead on, higher yet if you were in DCA/IAD/BWI

Eagle guys aren't the problem, they just filled an empty hole made by are own lack of guts and incompetence.

Have fun

 

[STL717]

AA has too much overhead. CASM bottomed out at 9.5 cents in the 3rd qtr 2003, 25% higher than SWA. CASM is now increasing due to fuel and interest on $14-21 BILLION debt. Arpey's guide for the expense reductions last year was his masters thesis from 22 years ago.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

The greivance you talk of was initiated by the Eagle ALPA MEC because of an
understanding as a result of statements on the APA's interpretation of Supp W/Letter 3
based on Jim Sovich's testimony.

Slow down folks. No grievance has been filed on this issue. For that matter, no grievance CAN be filed, until some "harm" (real or perceived) has been done to the Eagle pilot group. Since recalls have not started yet, no grievance can be filed. Only when recalls start, if EGL ALPA feels it is worth pursuing, then they MAY file a grievance at that time. At this point, there is just some discussion between interested parties on the issue, largely due to the aforementioned Sovich testimony.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Swede]

To everyone: The 80/80/80 guy was not necessarily an indictment on Eagle as a group and as a whole. Within any outfit there are losers and buffoons who will whore themselves out, with scab-like approaches to contractural negotiations. The idea isn't to get the other guy's job with a group effort, undercutting current salaries, it's to raise the entire profession. Within the APA we have ideas and contactural issues that I am violently opposed to, and the shrill pilots who push these ideas have my contempt, because many of them undermine not only the AA list, but seek to wreck career progression at Eagle.

Either merge the lists entirely (impossible and bound to wind up in court, IMO) or separate the two groups with a fence that makes the Berlin wall look like cardboard. I recognize the bitterness that the flow-through / furloughee mess is causing.

IIRC the 80/80/80 thing was from a dude who was pissed that he wasn't with AA. It was a badge saying "I want your job, and I'll do it cheaper".

 

[G4G5]

imho, it's a moot point.
AMR has $20 BILLION in debt. That burden has to be paid.

Once the economy has recovered, maybe this time next year. AMR will look to it's single largest source of cash. An IPO of Eagle. Again, imho, I would fully expect to see AMR offer up 49% of Eagle in the form of an IPO. This would create a tremendous amount of cash while still being able to maitain a controlling interest.