AMR can abandon pilots' union contract -judge

[OHGOON]

This maybe an aside, but does abrogating the contract also mean the end of all recall rights?

 

[maru657]

Not trying to stir the pot but if I were an ex-Reno or TWA pilot, I would'nt feel too much obligation to support the Allied pilot group.

 

[Flyby1206]

This maybe an aside, but does abrogating the contract also mean the end of all recall rights?

Not unless the company imposes those terms. Nothing has changed yet, but AMR has permission to change the terms of the existing agreement. Early next week AMR is supposed to meet with APA to tell them what they will do to their contract.

 

[waveflyer]

Because historically, a professional pension manager controlling a billion dollar fund has done better than the average 401K individual investor. In fact, they did so well that pension funds became profit centers for big corporations before the managers decided to raid the pensions. I could explain further, but you really should just read the book. It's a real eye-opener.

This^^^

Retirement Heist should be required reading for all airline employees.

 

[OHGOON]

Not trying to stir the pot but if I were an ex-Reno or TWA pilot, I would'nt feel too much obligation to support the Allied pilot group.

With all due respect, yes you are.

Reno and TWA are ancient history. No matter what heartburn those memories may cause, they are irrelevant to what is happening to APA pilots now. Management's abuse of bankruptcy regulation to gain leverage on both the competition and labor is the problem, not what one pilot group did or did not do to another.

Until pilots realize that was is happening to one of us is happening to all, we as a profession will continue to take it up the a$$ from management.

When will we realize we are all in this together? The paint scheme of the jet really has no bearing what so ever on the quality of the crew within and the size of one's wallet is determined not by superior flying skill but purely by random chance of having been at the right place at the right time.

Maybe if we stopped bashing each other long enough, we may recognize the real adversary as the folks sporting $100.00 silk ties and cufflinks rather than the ones happening to be wearing a different shade of polyester.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Reno and TWA are ancient history. No matter what heartburn those memories may cause, they are irrelevant to what is happening to APA pilots now.

Dismissing history almost inevitably leads to it being repeated. The choices pilots make, irrevocably alter the landscape of the profession. Withholding apologies and forgiveness ensures that those same pilots can never harness their cooperative strength to make improvements and mitigate what was lost.

Let me tell ya about it...

 

[OHGOON]

Dismissing history almost inevitably leads to it being repeated......Let me tell ya about it...

Where in my post am I suggesting any history is or should be dismissed? I just think that the gloating and Schadenfreude exhibited by some of our fellow pilots are in no way helpful or appropriate.

In other words:

The choices pilots make, irrevocably alter the landscape of the profession.Withholding apologies and forgiveness ensures that those same pilots can never harness their cooperative strength to make improvements and mitigate what was lost.

 

[maru657]

I knew a couple of ex-controllers who crossed the picket line at Eastern. Frankly, after Duffy and ALPA's response to the PATCO strike I couldn't blame them. Yep, we all stick together or wait to hit bottom. This might seem like a non-seqiter however it's hard to support any group that refuses to support others.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I think there's a TV show out there about a guy who goes around finding the folks he wronged and asking for forgiveness. Perhaps the APA, CAL, NWA, TWA, USAPA, and ALPA could make guest appearances.

 

[nyboilermaker]

Maybe if we stopped bashing each other long enough, we may recognize the real adversary as the folks sporting $100.00 silk ties and cufflinks rather than the ones happening to be wearing a different shade of polyester.

My favorite quote of the year...applies to everyone of us...

 

[bizicmo]

if the company exits the jointly agreed upon contract does that then allow the pilots to due the same? Strike sickout whatever? They aren't under a jointly agreed upon contract.

 

[livin'thesim]

This^^^

Retirement Heist should be required reading for all airline employees.

Professional management was not the "problem". The problem was that the funds were not locked away in some sort of protected account. The corporations still had access to them, and the predictable happened.

 

[livin'thesim]

With all due respect, yes you are.

Reno and TWA are ancient history. No matter what heartburn those memories may cause, they are irrelevant to what is happening to APA pilots now.

Gonna have to disagree here. "Ancient history" is a convenient way to pretend that previous wrongs are irrelevant.

A group that once had a lot of muscle and took pleasure in using it is now suddenly on the other side of the equation, and about to learn a powerful lesson regarding the abuse of asymmetric power.

I'm sure many AA pilots told TWA pilots "nothing personal, just business". I hope they have the internal consistency to repeat that phrase to themselves now.

 

[ackattacker]

if the company exits the jointly agreed upon contract does that then allow the pilots to due the same? Strike sickout whatever? They aren't under a jointly agreed upon contract.

Short answer is no. Long answer is go look up the NWA flight attendants 1113 case.

 

[Dizel8]

if the company exits the jointly agreed upon contract does that then allow the pilots to due the same? Strike sickout whatever?

I don't think the RLA will allow them to strike, as unfair as that seems.

 

[dollacrackho]

what are american pilots complaining about ? horton is giving you ipads isnt that enough

 

[bizicmo]

I don't think the RLA will allow them to strike, as unfair as that seems.

I assume everyone is fairly pissed off, can they vote to decertify the union, then just have some sort of non-union organized strike? I would think you could only fire so many people in any given day.

 

[ironspud]

Gonna have to disagree here. "Ancient history" is a convenient way to pretend that previous wrongs are irrelevant.

A group that once had a lot of muscle and took pleasure in using it is now suddenly on the other side of the equation, and about to learn a powerful lesson regarding the abuse of asymmetric power.

I'm sure many AA pilots told TWA pilots "nothing personal, just business". I hope they have the internal consistency to repeat that phrase to themselves now.

Good post. I'm sure there are many that secretly feel the Nordstrom pilots should have their turn at losing homes, retirements and families.

 

[G4dude]

Good post. I'm sure there are many that secretly feel the Nordstrom pilots should have their turn at losing homes, retirements and families.

Exactly. By the way, aren't AA pilots roughly the highest paid passenger carrier? If so, how can the airline compete against airlines with considerably lower pay scales?

 

[Whine Lover]

"...aren't AA pilots roughly the highest paid passenger carrier? "

Whaaat...??

NO.

Even in the 90's they were actually one of the LOWEST paid Majors.

They still are even today. Of the 6 Legacy carriers,only United and UsAirways pay less than American.

Delta, Hawaiian, Alaska all pay significantly more.

That doesn't even include Southwest and a few others....

Welcome to 2012.





YKW