AMR bankruptcy Likely.....so says the Associated Press

[jonjuan]

Apparently in NYC, the food that is being served to the Occupiers is being eaten by the homeless leaving little to none for the actual Occupiers. Also, an occupier left a laptop to go a meeting, when he came back, the laptop was gone. And I thought the protests centered around redistribution.
Video somewhere showed an occupier complaining that the homeless were eating food designated for them. Lol......:bawling:

 

[waveflyer]

Airline pilots are the ultimate contradictions-
Militantly union, and militantly conservative

Only people as dumb as Sacha could be this-
Hey dude- why do you defend wall street? Is your head that buried in the sand that you think wallstreet deserves the wealth the US middle class earned? They've been a problem and conservatives allow it happen

 

[HA25]

The reason Delta is making money is because so many 50 seaters have been parked lately. But look, SWA doesn't have any RJs, and they lost $160 million during the best quarter of the year. Say it isn't so.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

what so many pilots don't' understand is that in today's finance centered corporate world, a business can make it of fail, having nothing to do with it's core business, or operation... all it takes is financial mismanagement, whether it's risky hedges, or bad credit decisions and high executive bonuses... and you can go from a $150M profit to a $150M loss with the same revenues.

 

[igneousy2]

what so many pilots don't' understand is that in today's finance centered corporate world, a business can make it of fail, having nothing to do with it's core business, or operation... all it takes is financial mismanagement, whether it's risky hedges, or bad credit decisions and high executive bonuses... and you can go from a $150M profit to a $150M loss with the same revenues.

Sorry I must of missed this in history class but when was business NOT "finance centered"?

I think a lot of people need to read Adam Smith. He had it figured out in the 18th century. The occupiers picked the wrong street...Wall Street has nothing to do with their complaints...they should be on Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[Neubyfly]

what so many pilots don't' understand is that in today's finance centered corporate world, a business can make it of fail, having nothing to do with it's core business, or operation... all it takes is financial mismanagement, whether it's risky hedges, or bad credit decisions and high executive bonuses... and you can go from a $150M profit to a $150M loss with the same revenues.

No disrespect but, I think all but the most inexperienced pilot understand that. Most of us have been through bankruptcies, downsizing, contract negotiations, oil spikes, take-overs, mergers, bonus taking managers, etc.. And, ALL of us work for CEO's who would rather run an airline without planes and pilots (a virtual airline) all the while lining their own pockets while demanding concessions.

 

[Rick James]

Hey dude- why do you defend wall street? Is your head that buried in the sand that you think wallstreet deserves the wealth the US middle class earned? They've been a problem and conservatives allow it happen

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...s-and-obamas/2011/10/25/gIQAKPIosM_print.html

While we're at it, who was running MF Global? Furthermore, what postion does that individual hold on a sitting president's re election campaign?

You should consider using some restraint when painting with the blame brush.

 

[152SIC]

what so many pilots don't' understand is that in today's finance centered corporate world, a business can make it of fail, having nothing to do with it's core business, or operation... all it takes is financial mismanagement, whether it's risky hedges, or bad credit decisions and high executive bonuses... and you can go from a $150M profit to a $150M loss with the same revenues.

Dead on. Here is a recent podcast explaining just that.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/09/30/140954343/the-friday-podcast-how-money-got-weird

 

[HA25]

Sorry I must of missed this in history class but when was business NOT "finance centered"?

I think a lot of people need to read Adam Smith. He had it figured out in the 18th century. The occupiers picked the wrong street...Wall Street has nothing to do with their complaints...they should be on Pennsylvania Ave.

Neubyfly who posted below you knows what I was fishing for with my (maybe) poorly stated point.... SURE all business has finance as a component (not centered), but TODAY's airlines are made of bean counters who run an airline from a spread sheet... YESTERDAY, the airlines were run by founders, visionaries and empire builders... Men like Bob Six, Juan Tripe, or Howard Hughes... yes, they understood the value of the dollar, and how to make a profit, but they more importantly wanted to build an airline first and foremost, not a stock option price.

I have read Adam Smith, as part of my major in Finance and Economics... if you would read Adam Smith deeper, as in past "The Wealth of Nations" you'd see that a lot of what those occupy protesters are complaining about is addressed in his lesser known, but equally important book "The Theory of Moral Sentiments".

Try that and get back to me.

 

[igneousy2]

Neubyfly who posted below you knows what I was fishing for with my (maybe) poorly stated point.... SURE all business has finance as a component (not centered), but TODAY's airlines are made of bean counters who run an airline from a spread sheet... YESTERDAY, the airlines were run by founders, visionaries and empire builders... Men like Bob Six, Juan Tripe, or Howard Hughes... yes, they understood the value of the dollar, and how to make a profit, but they more importantly wanted to build an airline first and foremost, not a stock option price.

I have read Adam Smith, as part of my major in Finance and Economics... if you would read Adam Smith deeper, as in past "The Wealth of Nations" you'd see that a lot of what those occupy protesters are complaining about is addressed in his lesser known, but equally important book "The Theory of Moral Sentiments".

Try that and get back to me.

I think I agree with you more than I disagree. While I do long for a visionary in the industry, I think because the airline industry is now a mature industry, I think the potential for profits is deeper and deeper into the minutia...so out go the visionaries and in come the accountants.

That being said, I read an article about the effect that the transition this country has taken from Defined Benefit to Defined Contribution has had the effect of shrinking the time horizion for corporate profits. When "investors" in companies were a relatively small group of pension managers who were more concerned with long term income, it made companies focus on increasing dividends and concentrating on long term viability of their businesses. Today, individual investors have short attention spans, individual investors demand quarter after quarter of growing proftis, whether they invest in individual stocks or mutual funds. This causes companies to be more concerned with the short run then the long run...look at AMR.

The big probem I have with the occupiers and like-minded people is this notion that somehow corporations owe something to there workers or to society as a whole for that matter. When Sam Walton hired his first stock boy they had a voluntary agreement for the stock boy to keep the shelves stocked for a certain wage. SOMEHOW, in some peoples mind, Sam Walton, by providing this job, has now commited himself to providing food and shelter to this worker (living wage), providing medical treatment for this worker and his family (mandatory medical benefits), and a descent retirement. Heaven forbid Sam Walton should save money earned in his store and buy himself a nicer car instead of hiring a 2nd stock boy. It's amazing anyone hires anyone at all.

As far as Adam Smith goes...

Adam Smith believed in freedom, he believed that the most moral society (theory of moral sentiments) and best economy (Wealth of Nations) emerged from individuals acting in their own self interest. Literally, their own self-interest in Wealth of Nations for economic questions, and more figuretively in the desire to please an "impartial spectator" for more moral questions in the Theory of Moral Sentiments.

The whole POINT of The Theory of Moral Sentiments was that a just society could only emerge from a society of individuals allowed to act with their own free will and NOT from the government or other philosophers DEFINING what those Moral Actions must be, which in my mind is exactly 180 degrees from what the occupiers are trying to accomplish.

 

[Mamma]

Airline pilots are the ultimate contradictions-
Militantly union, and militantly conservative

Only people as dumb as Sacha could be this-
Hey dude- why do you defend wall street? Is your head that buried in the sand that you think wallstreet deserves the wealth the US middle class earned? They've been a problem and conservatives allow it happen

Ironic you call Sacha dumb with a statement like this. Guess you don't keep up with current/past events or you are just a fringe nut. I'm gonna go with both.

 

[HA25]

Ironic you call Sacha dumb with a statement like this. Guess you don't keep up with current/past events or you are just a fringe nut. I'm gonna go with both.

so it's fringe now to think Wall St. is filled with overpaid greedy SOB's?

wow, what has this world come to?

 

[Mamma]

so it's fringe now to think Wall St. is filled with overpaid greedy SOB's?

wow, what has this world come to?

I guess you have reading comprehension issues if this is what you made of my comment. But, I'll help you out. It was the blame game I was pointing out. Wavey likes throw the horse blinders on and cast blame for everything at the feet of conservatism. If we are going to lay blame at conservatives, since when were Geitner, Frank, Dodd, Obama, Rubin and Rangle conservatives? Was Bush a true conservative? Can you say Obama, Rangel and Frank were not lining their pockets with Wall Street money? Can you honestly say the Republicans are conservatives or Democrats are liberals? I say they are opportunistic.

 

[HA25]

I guess you have reading comprehension issues if this is what you made of my comment. But, I'll help you out. It was the blame game I was pointing out. Wavey likes throw the horse blinders on and cast blame for everything at the feet of conservatism. If we are going to lay blame at conservatives, since when were Geitner, Frank, Dodd, Obama, Rubin and Rangle conservatives? Was Bush a true conservative? Can you say Obama, Rangel and Frank were not lining their pockets with Wall Street money? Can you honestly say the Republicans are conservatives or Democrats are liberals? I say they are opportunistic.

I blame the Republicrats....

 

[Fubijaakr]

The big probem I have with the occupiers and like-minded people is this notion that somehow corporations owe something to there workers or to society as a whole for that matter.

Loved your post 'til I got to this comment. I think you've missed the point of the whole OWS movement.

Its less about corporate or govenment handouts to individuals and more about the perversion of our political system. The idea that Corporations have individual rights and can therefore make unlimited political donations to PACs is at the heart of the whole issue.

It used to be "of the people, by the people and for the people." Now Corporations and rich individuals can buy all the political power they need to emasculate regulations to suit their individual interests.

You and I cannot match that power.

Two things need to happen in this country immediately.

1. Amend the Constitution to reflect that individual rights belong only to individual HUMAN beings.
2. Campaign finance reform.

Until then, we will continue to drift until we're a big third world country wondering what happened to America.

 

[Mamma]

I blame the Republicrats....

Of course you do. You are ignorant.

 

[HA25]

Of course you do. You are ignorant.

/sigh....

 

[Mamma]

Loved your post 'til I got to this comment. I think you've missed the point of the whole OWS movement.

Its less about corporate or govenment handouts to individuals and more about the perversion of our political system. The idea that Corporations have individual rights and can therefore make unlimited political donations to PACs is at the heart of the whole issue.

It used to be "of the people, by the people and for the people." Now Corporations and rich individuals can buy all the political power they need to emasculate regulations to suit their individual interests.

You and I cannot match that power.

Two things need to happen in this country immediately.

1. Amend the Constitution to reflect that individual rights belong only to individual HUMAN beings.
2. Campaign finance reform.

Until then, we will continue to drift until we're a big third world country wondering what happened to America.

Spot on. Campaign finance reform is a difficult task and money will always find a way to a politician....either in office or out.

 

[Fubijaakr]

FMS: Don't try to practice irony here. No one ever gets it.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Spot on. Campaign finance reform is a difficult task and money will always find a way to a politician....either in office or out.

Sadly, I agree with you.

 

[HA25]

FMS: Don't try to practice irony here. No one ever gets it.

he claimed I lacked reading comprehension, so I showed him that he suffers from dyslexia.