Amex, NetJets, and Johnny Soprano.

[gunfyter]

I went back awhile ago and looked up the 10-K filings. NetJets made money in 2011, 2010, 2008, 2006, 2004 and operated at a loss in 2009, 2005, 2003, 2002, & 2001. 2007 numbers weren't broken out, but I believe, based on the narrative, they made money.

you are probably right. I based what I said on an article about the $711 million loss in 2009 that said it was the first loss since 2001. Probably an error.

 

[BentOver]

From what I remember 2007 may have been their best year for $$?? Just what I remember hearing on "campus"...



I also remember hearing that NJE was a big detractor for Netjets back in 2001-'03??(when they were getting the operation rolling) Maybe that had something to do with the losses in those couple years? I was always under the impression that after 9/11 NJA did very well... Of course 2001 was recession period as well as 2009....

As for 2005 all I can remember about that was huge amounts of hiring and aircraft deliveries. Would that have factored into any losses?

Either way, the most prolific investor in recent history seems to be satisfied with what NJA is doing. He's the "boss". Bottom line....

 

[gunfyter]

For the wages we were working for they basically had free labor ... I can't see how they could have lost money... but the 10K is the 10K..

 

[rajflyboy]

IBB

should have voted NO

 

[BentOver]

And SIC's would still be making $40K a year....

keep thinking your right..no really...

OR

NJA/NJASAP would have opened negotiations in 2010.... That would have been superb... NJASAP would have held ALL the cards:laugh:

IBB is turning out to be about the best thing to ever happen to an aviation company in the last decade or more...

1) Higher pay for SIC's who are soon to be 10 yr. SIC's

2)reset the CBA schedule.. NJASAP got a renewed contract during a BOOM year. (rather than 2009-2011, the worst the economy has seen since the 1930's).. and by the time it comes up again there should also be some BOOM years...

3)Basing for SIC's was improved by..oh, lets see...2000%

4) The ONLY proof you've shown for voting NO as a good idea was the loss of your own personal CC usage, thus losing some points on a Hilton AMEX card.:bawling:

Word of wisdom..If you're gonna slam something atleast show some supporting evidence. (other than the loss of some CC points)

 

[imacdog]

IBB

should have voted NO

Just repeat that to yourself until the day you die, while enjoying the pay raise it brought you during the industry's worst downturn in decades.

 

[Helmsalee]

And the company cc was not part of IBB. It just happened at the same time. The company could have instituted it before or after.

 

[fischman]

IBB

should have voted NO

Nope. IBB was the right thing to do then, and now. I voted yes and am proud of it.

There is always someone in every organization that is a no voter no matter what. It is easy to vote no and say "I TOLD YOU SO. I TOLD YOU SO. I TOLD YOU SO!!!" It takes courage vote yes.

Here's the deal with IBB.

1) Basing for the new-hires eliminated an essential "B scale" which has been the detriment of many unions (divide and conquer sound familiar?).
2) Raises
3) fixing 20.7
4) Bringing NJI in strengthened our scope interests
5) Most importantly, we would have opened section 6 in 2010. I don't know if you're up on history, but 2010 wasn't a good time to be in talks. Don't believe me? Ask the FLOPS guys and let me know what they say.

What have you voted yes on?

 

[Sparse]

There is always someone in every organization that is a no voter no matter what. It is easy to vote no and say "I TOLD YOU SO. I TOLD YOU SO. I TOLD YOU SO!!!" It takes courage vote yes.


What have you voted yes on?

Tell that to a CA pilot

 

[rajflyboy]

Pay raises for IBB


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

sheep so many many sheep

 

[rajflyboy]

And SIC's would still be making $40K a year....

keep thinking your right..no really...

OR

NJA/NJASAP would have opened negotiations in 2010.... That would have been superb... NJASAP would have held ALL the cards:laugh:

IBB is turning out to be about the best thing to ever happen to an aviation company in the last decade or more...

1) Higher pay for SIC's who are soon to be 10 yr. SIC's

2)reset the CBA schedule.. NJASAP got a renewed contract during a BOOM year. (rather than 2009-2011, the worst the economy has seen since the 1930's).. and by the time it comes up again there should also be some BOOM years...

3)Basing for SIC's was improved by..oh, lets see...2000%

4) The ONLY proof you've shown for voting NO as a good idea was the loss of your own personal CC usage, thus losing some points on a Hilton AMEX card.:bawling:

Word of wisdom..If you're gonna slam something atleast show some supporting evidence. (other than the loss of some CC points)

Well in that case since the first and only offer would only be the first and only offer EVER than you are saying that we should have passed the contract sent to us in 2003/2004 ??

because you couldn't possibly negotiate anything better?

IBB could have and should have been WAY better than it was.

I'm done explaining myself to the sheep on here that follow someones lead but they don't read what they are voting on.

 

[BentOver]

IBB wasn't a section 6 negotiation. It was a tweak to the '05 contract. From what I understand it was to deter so many SIC's from bailing to the legacies back in the mid 2000's when they were all hiring. Thus reducing training event costs.

Yes I think you all could have done better in '05.. A crappy pay scale and terrible "B" basing scale for SIC's. Both of which was improved under IBB.

Sure IBB could have been better. Contracts can always be better. But it served it's purpose. Made the NJA contract better than everyone else by far. And made NJA the place to be after 2007.

Remember, Santulli could have said "screw it you can stick with your '05 agreement. See you in 2010!" Hope you understand how poorly that would have worked out for the pilots..

 

[BentOver]

And as usual you provide no proof. No examples, no ideas on what you would have liked to see in IBB...

Therefore your opinion holds no weight

 

[rajflyboy]

I've already gone over some of the negatives and refuse to relive it with the sheep on here.

quick over view

loss of vacation, loss of day 1 OT with 1 hour airport show, sick time work rules, lack of any response to the continual standy at airport bs, G wiz merger..... just to name a few..

FO pay and basing could have been had without giving up the rest with the kitchen sink

 

[DieselDragRacer]

FWIW - Amex charges the merchant a helluva lot more than 3%, which is why many merchants refuse to take Amex.

You can figure a business, which is receiving good merchant services rates, is paying 1.xx% for a debit card, upper 1.xx% for a 'straight' credit card (personal card, no rewards), business credit cards are 3% on the low end and up to 4% if they are a rewards type card.

Amex on the other hand can easily cost the merchant 5%+.

 

[gunfyter]

Diesel,

I knew it was at least 3%. I was just trying to show the usury involved. if you do the math and ESTIMATE what would be an APR. Note that BRK is a large shareholder in AMEX, I guess they like this math.

Fractional is supposed to work like that.

Owner's planes and money go through the system and Frac company takes a VIG... like Johnny Soprano. Or a Transaction fee by AMEX.

If $5 billion in annual revenues ... that's $400 million / mo. The $200 million profit is 4% of $5B but it is 50% of the average $400 Million / mo. $400 M of other people's money

NJ is taking a 50% APR... on the $400 million, paying the bills of the cost of operating aircraft and collecting the monthly fees. We are a bank.

 

[gret]

The percentages for credit cards are negotiated in most circumstances. I've worked with several companies that accept AMEX and it normally runs 3%-3.5%. The larger the volume, the more the % goes down. Personally, I never seen any card charge more than that.

The percentage also varies based on how quick the merchant wants their dough. If they get paid within 72 hours, the charged is higher versus 10 or 30 days.

In any case, the burden is heavy to the merchant, but the risk of loss is transferred to a third party, you save on bookkeeping costs, and most people don't have enough cash in their pockets anymore. Back in the 70's and 80's, a friend of mine who has passed use to carry at least $2K wherever he went in case an "emergency purchase" had to be made. Usually it was in a bar and it wasn't for liquor. Now, most people don't even have $100 in walking around money.

 

[gunfyter]

3- 3.5% ... it is still usury.

And I am not sure the penalties and fees if you can't pay your monthly bill are much worse than the Sopranos cutting off a finger or breaking a few bones.

 

[gret]

Not cheap.

Not as bad as the government with all the taxes on cellphone bills.

 

[gunfyter]

Not cheap.

Not as bad as the government with all the taxes on cellphone bills.

iPhone Users Are About to Be Screwed Over

But good ideas can't be killed. But this "good idea" isn't about the convenience of paying with a phone swipe, but the idea of running your tab through the phone company. If you think your banker is a gouger with dubious fees and no-leeway, what do you think the phone company will be like? Yes, let AT&T handle all your money for you, and see how that works out in the end.

What do you think AT&T's VIG will be?

Methinks Warren will soon be buying AT&T stock...

The Marquis Card will soon be re-marketed as a NJA branded iPhone. Or maybe just an iPhone app.