American and Eagle (AMR)

[BacktoAA]

Unfortunately, those of us hired after April 2001 have no room to bitch. It was a widely known and advertised situation that we would in most likelyhood be below ALL of the TWA folks. We knew that before playing the game - we could have gone somewhere (NWA, FedEx) else but believed that AA is the winning team. Time will tell.

 

[bayoubandit]

Wow,

To start, I did not have an application in with TWA. I didn't have much desire to go there since their future looked bleak. I was aware that when I hired on that the TWA guys would go ahead of me. I still chose AA, yes, the aquisition seemed to have benfits, remember this was all long before 9/11. But then I remembered how AMR does business when it comes to mergers/aquisitions. I still think I made the right decision (most of my friends at the commuters agree). The frustration lies in that the timing was off.

Losing those numbers when your active is one thing, but the frustration arose when being furloughed and losing those numbers. Some gained, others lost. But I still have one of the best jobs around to go back to. (lets hope)

I, as well as many of my classmates did expect to benefit from the aquisition of TWA. As of now, we have not. Will we in the future, I doubt it seeing as AMR has and may continue to decrease the fleet size. This just prolongs the furlough. No need to explain how this works.

I am not glad by anymeans that AMR bought TWA. I do not think that my class is in a better position with TWA. I think we would have been far better off without TWA. I only can say that with the events that have happened and the industry hurting. But I still have a hunch that AA wouldn't have benefited that much ommiting 9/11. With AMR's track record of mergers, the same results may have happened anyways. But now is reality, and that's what we have to deal with. There are too many questions and not enough answers, maybe the aquisition will benefit us down the road, maybe it won't.

After all my rambling, BacktoAA said it best. Those of us hired after April '01 have no room to bitch. We were fully aware of what was to come with regard to the TWA folks. Despite being furloughed, I still glad and lucky to have been hired at AA when I was. We have a long road ahead of us, and to me being furloughed is one of the lesser important of whats to come. With the cabotage, baseball arbitration, and scope lobbying, the furlough might be like a walk in Central Park. You know, you might get mugged or beat up a little bit, but you still walk away from it without having lost much in the grand scheme of things. How's that for a bad anology??

 

[HA25]

Anyone know what the pilot retirement picture looks like at both AA and TWA?

Afterall with 13000+ pilots, there has to be room for 700 to come back over the next two years based on that alone, let alone any economic recovery etc..


BTW, what are you considered if you were hired after 4/01 by AA, but never were assigned a seniority number? AA, TWA, or AA/TWA new bread?

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

I just counted on the AA pilots site and there is 266 retiring between now and July 2003. It looks like alot of them are former TWA pilots. This does not account for early retirements and medicals..



hope this helps,

burrrp!!

 

[HA25]

Well guys, I just talked with a good friend who is very senior (767 check airman) and well informed at American and he seems to think that there may be another 100 furloughs at American. He didn't seem to think that it was to do with anything other than slow recovery. I hope this is just rumor and totally wrong, but this guys is "in the know".

I still think that if APA starts to talk about a contract extention rather than keep drumming the section 6 stuff (its a timing thing), they would do themselves a big favor as the section 6 is better done under good economic times, for now do like NWA, and CAL and extend what you've got with an indexed payraise. And tie it all to a recall of pilots.

IMHO

 

[bayoubandit]

A contract extension may be an idea to juggle around with, but I doubt it would fly with some of those hard core union types around there. Another thing is that right now is a perfect time for negotiations for Carty. With all the "doom and gloom" it helps make Carty's case for government intervention with regard to scope, baseball arbitration and cabotage (foreign investment). AMR also needs relief on the RJ, so I think they are willing to negotiate regardless of the economic state of the country. JMO.

Another 100 furloughs would not surprise me at all. I was reading C&R and I guess the latest schoolhouse rumor is that the F100 & A300 fleet will be going soon. Results would be furloughs of 1500 pilots, 4000 F/A's and 500 mgmt type. Another rumor was to recall about 100 guys to fill somewhere. Who knows! I think the fleet retirements is nothing more than a fear grenade, but god forbid if it did happen, I think we could pretty much forget about going back to AA in the next 7-8 years. Lets hope it is just a rumor.

V70T5, for those guys who never got a seniority number, they were terminated with recall rights. Initially they were to be fired with no recall rights. The union struck an agreement with AMR to recall those guys. They are original AA, regardless, we are all AA now.

 

[AAflyer]

We are the union!!! Get out a sound-off and let them know that many are intrested in doing what NWA did. I sent one a few days ago. Living near headquarters I think the consensus in the union is more in resloving scope with Eagle and Oneworld than a pay raise at this point.

As for both fleets being eliminated it is a fear grenade. The cargo capacity and mission of the A300 in the carribean can not be replaced by anything else. The amount of capacity that would be eliminated is more market share than AMR is willing to give up. I too have a few sources in the palace. Before anymore furloughs expect to maybe see offers of early outs this fall. They are looking at a few things, some announcements will be made soon.

AAflyer

 

[HA25]

This is a fact:

Mo Company, Airline or otherwise, can grow by shrinking....and growth is the goal of every business along with profits. So AMR will not turn into a Southwest, and that is simply a management scare tactic.

I do hope that APA does play a little bit of ball on the scope issue, just because I really believe that it does feed to mainline. There are some cases where it is a blatent replacement of mainline, but this should be written into the scope clause and arbitrated.

 

[walmartwannabe]

Question to Bayoubandit

Hey Bayou Bandit,

Did you say you were hired at AA or did you flow through from Eagle ?

 

[seagle]

Just wondering how AA plans to compete against SWA, Jetblue, Airtran, ATA, Air Alaska, Spirit, AWA and the other regionals? How long will AMR's 2.5 billion last at a loss rate of 2 billion per year? If AMR doesn't change they won't be another "Walmart" of the airline industry (Mr. Carty should be so lucky), but rather the next "Kmart."

 

[HA25]

This debate is going on on various threads, however there are two points to be made about SWA and others.

Generally, while profitable in good times, discount carriers have been better off in the bad times than the traditional carriers. However the traditional carriers do much better in the boom times (which these are not). This is why AMR has more than 2.5 billion in cash and 6 billion is payed off planes, they made a lot of money in the late 90's.

Also, SWA has a significanly lower cost structure......all on the back of their workforce. Either they have to step up to the majors's or the majors will be forced to chip away at ALPA/APA contracts until they can compete with the 800lb gorilla of domestic airfare.

 

[bayoubandit]

Walmartwanabee,

Sorry for the delay. Got a new job and had to go to training.

No, I didn't flow through from Eagle. I was hired on at AA.

On another subject. I heard AA is going to have a big announcement AUG 13. I wonder what they are going to have to say.

 

[eagleatr]

Heard on the AA jumpseat on Thursday that they are talking about more furloughs. Either 1000 or 1500 is what they Captain said he was told. Hopefully, this is not true, but knowing AMR, I wouldn't be surprised since they are in contract talks.


EagleATR

 

[HA25]

1000 to 1500 sounds like SciFi. I heard 100 or so from a good source.

 

[J3CubCapt]

Looking for a lost friend at Eagle

Hey, does anyonoe out there know an ATR, or maybe now Jet CA by the name of Scott Vernon? If so could you get a message to him that Will Ware would like to get an Email to him. PM me and I'll give you my Email address.
Thanks
Will

 

[mckpickle]

Talked to a buddy of mine who was doing recurrent. They sent him to twa differences training on the 80. when he asked why so soon, they said because the f100's were going to be leaving sooner than expected and the 80's would be intergrated soon. The numbers he heard were 700-1000. Hang in there everyone.

 

[eagleatr]

Here's a good one for which I take no responsibility:


Heard today that AA will retire all F100's, B717's, and A300's. TSA just negotiated a "large jet" pay scale. All F100's and B717's will now be operated by American Connection.




I told you it was good!




EagleATR






At least it's good for a laugh.

 

[J3CubCapt]

I flew for Eagle from 1990-1997, I know alot has changed since I left, but can some one tell me what the American Connection is?

Thanks
J3

 

[eagleatr]

The American Connection is the former TWE carriers Trans States, Chatuaqua, and Corporate Air. So far, they only fly in and out of STL, but rumor has that changing soon.



EagleATR