Altrnate Crew Pairing model at ASA

[Freebrd]

Oops, so sorry, didn't notice the displaced part. :0

 

[JumpersAway]

If I recall correctly, last years F/A mixup was due, in part, to a last minute change in block hours that was handed down by Delta. This had nothing to do with ASA and "poor planning".

The only thing I didn't like about it was hearing the F/A's whine about not being comfortable about going to the hotel by themselves. Most of them are from the ghetto anyway, and if they can't get from the airport to the hotel with their big girl panties on, they shouldn't be working the job. I'm a pilot, not a flight attendant babysitter. They're big girls, and should be able to handle it.

As far as the IAD lines- it's the first month! There is going to be alot of adjustment on behalf of the crews AND management. Give it time, especially as the flying increases.

Sorry someone is going to be on reserve here forever. However, don't think you're going to get alot of compassion from a USAirways guy that's been on reserve for 18 years, a Delta guy that's been on reserve for 6 years, or a United guy that could hold a line 10 years ago, but can't and also got displaced with a brand new paycut.

Truth is, that as bad as we gripe, there are 136 folks that would LOVE to be dealing with what you are. Grin, bear it, and get the job done for them. This job is what it is, it will always be what it will be, and if you can't affect change, quit giving yourself a stroke over it.

 

[Data]

Pilots whining...now that's a shocker!

 

[701EV]

1st class mods

Thanks

 

[OCP]

He said he was "displaced". That means he is being forced there. Have some compassion.

IAD lines are under OurASA Crewbid/documents

Thanks!

 

[ace6453]

The only thing I didn't like about it was hearing the F/A's whine about not being comfortable about going to the hotel by themselves. Most of them are from the ghetto anyway, and if they can't get from the airport to the hotel with their big girl panties on, they shouldn't be working the job. I'm a pilot, not a flight attendant babysitter. They're big girls, and should be able to handle it.

Ain't that the truth. There's already one biitching on the ASA comments section.

 

[Speedtape]

1. If you are on reserve, but close to holding a regular line, vote for PBS, as there will be many more regular lines with any PBS.
2. 4 day trips are more productive because more 4 days result in less duty periords. If you have a shortage of crewmembers, pilots or F/As, and they fly the same lines, then more 4 day trips accomodates the shortage in any position.
3. Delta switches flight crews and cabin crews constantly. It works there, but they probably have more ground time.
4. Scheduling, or good schedules, like the beauty in a picture, is in the eyes of a beholder. ALL Pilots will never be happy, no matter what the schedules look like or the pairing mix.
5. A job is better than no job in this industry, and in this economy. I want this company to build the lines that will keep them efficient and competitive--I can adjust for trips and schedules that don't meet my greatest desires; I can't adjust easily to having no job with a failed or weakened company in this economy.

Bottom line: Count your blessings, Bus drivers--especially if you still have a job!

 

[JoeMerchant]

1. If you are on reserve, but close to holding a regular line, vote for PBS, as there will be many more regular lines with any PBS.
2. 4 day trips are more productive because more 4 days result in less duty periords. If you have a shortage of crewmembers, pilots or F/As, and they fly the same lines, then more 4 day trips accomodates the shortage in any position.
3. Delta switches flight crews and cabin crews constantly. It works there, but they probably have more ground time.
4. Scheduling, or good schedules, like the beauty in a picture, is in the eyes of a beholder. ALL Pilots will never be happy, no matter what the schedules look like or the pairing mix.
5. A job is better than no job in this industry, and in this economy. I want this company to build the lines that will keep them efficient and competitive--I can adjust for trips and schedules that don't meet my greatest desires; I can't adjust easily to having no job with a failed or weakened company in this economy.

Bottom line: Count your blessings, Bus drivers!

Very well said!

Be careful, you are starting to sound like me......:beer:

 

[Speedtape]

Very well said!

Be careful, you are starting to sound like me......:beer:

Possibly, because we have both been around and both have a well developed "Survivor Instinct!"

 

[crj567]

If I recall correctly, last years F/A mixup was due, in part, to a last minute change in block hours that was handed down by Delta. This had nothing to do with ASA and "poor planning".

The only thing I didn't like about it was hearing the F/A's whine about not being comfortable about going to the hotel by themselves. Most of them are from the ghetto anyway, and if they can't get from the airport to the hotel with their big girl panties on, they shouldn't be working the job. I'm a pilot, not a flight attendant babysitter. They're big girls, and should be able to handle it.

You really are an insufferable tool. How many other airlines actually send flight attendants to the hotel ALONE? At least at the majors, they travel in groups.

-Just wait until something happens-the lawyers are gonna have great time with that one!

-You really have no business working at a job with multiple crewmembers per aircraft. Do everyone involved a favor and take your silly ass back to some job which requires only one pilot-then you can do everything your way and argue with your own self when the ball doesn't bounce the way you like.

-JERK!

 

[Dannone]

The memo said there will be more 4 days than 3 days not more 4 days as evidence by the fact that there are way more 3 days this month!!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

From the tenor of your reply, it appears that you are an advocate of abolishing rest rules altogether in airline operations. Is that a true statement? If not, would you characterize the current rest rules as being based off of sound scientific research into fatigue, or barring that, as simply adequate?

It was interesting, and perhaps enlightening, that the variable that you mentioned the most dismissively in your analogy was the flight crews' need for rest.

Here is reality: ASA's safety record is put in jeopardy every time our airline operates a flight with crews that have not had the chance to get enough sleep. Based off of personal experience and that of my peers, this happens with incredible regularity.

Glen,

I'm not claiming that we should get rid of rest rules at all. I never even suggested that. Quit being so alarmist. No one has suggested that our rest rules be reduced. The company made a small change to accommodate OUR request for more variety. Good grief.

I said that the rest rules of 10 hours make 3 days trips less likely. If you made the rest requirement 12 hours, it would be even harder. There is a happy medium. I saw that other people have responded to this post, so I won't labor the point.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Last summer's "experiment" with this crap did not work out well for me either! Did any of you geehaws notice that we missed our performance goals for that month? For what reason? -So they wouldn't have had to hire a new class of FAs. Complete bone-headed stuff.

-The only guys I didn't hear complaining were the nappers, and or course-the eternal few who chug the Kool-Aid.

Look man, I would rather have 3 days back and not be chained to the flight attendants. They are the ones with the contract language that makes 3 days less feasible.

 

[goahead]

You really are an insufferable tool. How many other airlines actually send flight attendants to the hotel ALONE? At least at the majors, they travel in groups.

-Just wait until something happens-the lawyers are gonna have great time with that one!

-You really have no business working at a job with multiple crewmembers per aircraft. Do everyone involved a favor and take your silly ass back to some job which requires only one pilot-then you can do everything your way and argue with your own self when the ball doesn't bounce the way you like.

-JERK!

That's your opinion not everyone's, which makes you a jerk for calling someone out who disagrees with you. I agree with him and most others that everyone who does this job should be grown up enough to travel by themselves.

 

[JumpersAway]

You really are an insufferable tool. How many other airlines actually send flight attendants to the hotel ALONE? At least at the majors, they travel in groups.

-Just wait until something happens-the lawyers are gonna have great time with that one!

-You really have no business working at a job with multiple crewmembers per aircraft. Do everyone involved a favor and take your silly ass back to some job which requires only one pilot-then you can do everything your way and argue with your own self when the ball doesn't bounce the way you like.

-JERK!

If my viewpoint makes me a jerk, then so be it. If flight attendant safety is that big a concern, shouldn't you also escort them to the shopping mall, drug store, grocery store, their moms house, etc? Perhaps you should also give them your number and have them check in with you to ensure they have made their "before dark curfew". They're big girls and they are adults- at least most of them act that way................sometimes.

I certainly appreciate the career guidance and evaluation. Really- from someone of your calibur and eloquence, that means alot to me, and I value it greatly. You truly are a wanted source wisdom, never ending brilliance, and a true professional. It shows in the most brilliant of your posts................Keep up the good work.

 

[crj567]

If my viewpoint makes me a jerk, then so be it. If flight attendant safety is that big a concern, shouldn't you also escort them to the shopping mall, drug store, grocery store, their moms house, etc? Perhaps you should also give them your number and have them check in with you to ensure they have made their "before dark curfew". They're big girls and they are adults- at least most of them act that way................sometimes.

I certainly appreciate the career guidance and evaluation. Really- from someone of your calibur and eloquence, that means alot to me, and I value it greatly. You truly are a wanted source wisdom, never ending brilliance, and a true professional. It shows in the most brilliant of your posts................Keep up the good work.

If you don't have the decency to give half a rat about what happens to your FA, how good of a captain could you be? I am not sure how long you have been in this business, but periodically some FAs do get robbed, beat up, or worse. Traveling in groups is always safer-especially when at least one other person in your group gives half a rat's ass about your well-being. I cannot think of any other airlines which play this little "get to/from the hotel on your own" game-this is just asking for trouble.

You really should evaluate your attitude. I hope you were being sarcastic about all these FAs being "from the ghetto," "big girls," and "some of them acting like adults-most of the time" but the fact that you think they should be able to coast thru a trip without any concern on your part really is disturbing. If you gave any of those lines to the poor sap who hired you, that problem would have been headed off at the pass.

-Some people really do need one airplane all to themselves.

 

[JumpersAway]

If you don't have the decency to give half a rat about what happens to your FA, how good of a captain could you be? I am not sure how long you have been in this business, but periodically some FAs do get robbed, beat up, or worse. Traveling in groups is always safer-especially when at least one other person in your group gives half a rat's ass about your well-being. I cannot think of any other airlines which play this little "get to/from the hotel on your own" game-this is just asking for trouble.

You really should evaluate your attitude. I hope you were being sarcastic about all these FAs being "from the ghetto," "big girls," and "some of them acting like adults-most of the time" but the fact that you think they should be able to coast thru a trip without any concern on your part really is disturbing. If you gave any of those lines to the poor sap who hired you, that problem would have been headed off at the pass.

-Some people really do need one airplane all to themselves.

So now you work in H.R. ? Interresting..................A pilot, philosopher, and an infant. That's an impressive resume'.

 

[crj567]

So now you work in H.R. ? Interresting..................A pilot, philosopher, and an infant. That's an impressive resume'.

I never implied that I ever worked in H.R. I only stated the very obvious point that no airline would intentionally hire such a poor leader. If you had let your guard down and said anything like that in an interview, no airline would have given you a shot. Airlines don't hire permanent F.O.s or button pushers, they try to hire people who will become good leaders. I don't think anyone who applies such derisive language to their descriptions of fellow crewmembers would quite qualify for any definintion of "good leader."

If you really do feel this way about your co-workers, you really need to fix your attitude. This is a freaking airline-we have multiple required crew members per airplane, every single flight, every single day! If you cannot figure out how to deal with these people and be somewhat sensitive to their issues, you really are not doing anyone any favors around here.

 

[sweptback]

I said that the rest rules of 10 hours make 3 days trips less likely.

Everybody keeps saying that, and I'm not sure how they are coming to this conclusion.

I did a search of all 3 day pairings for next month, and it seems about 1 out of every 5 or so has one layover less than 10 hours of rest. Those that do, it seemed like they were mostly on the high side of 9, so the flight could easily be rescheduled to get 10. The rest of the pairings had longer rest periods, and still had high credit.

And that's if 10 is the rest rule. We don't even know what the rules are yet!

 

[Freebrd]

The FA gets off the plane, goes inside the terminal, gets on the hotel van which takes her/him to the hotel, goes inside to check in, eats at the hotel/room service or nearby restaurant. What is so unsafe about this? We get better schedules in turn which is fine with me. I'm not a babysitter either.