I haven't even got my CFI yet but it is what i am currently working on and already i don't want it. The idea of flying and somebody else paying for it is the only thing that motivates me. Does anyone know of any other way to build time while making money, even if it is minimal money, toward an eventual descent job. I know of check running and somebody was telling me about bush piloting in Alaska and how easy it was to land jobs up there. The guy sounded full of **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** but i do know that they have some weird rules up there
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350DRIVER
I am unsure how much luck you would have in Alaska due to your low total time, keep in mind that many of the part 135 operators there fly single pilot operations and you are still well below the required part 135 captain minimums. You may want to look into getting some sort of second in command gig but I am pretty sure they are going to want to see that you have more flight time, worth looking into though if that is what you really want to do. Don't get the CFI just due to the fact that you need to "build" flight time, do it for the experience factor. The CFI is a great way to expand on what you already know and many companies will want to see that you were able to obtain this rating. It is a very competitive job market out there present day so I do suggest that you pursue this rating even if you don't have any intentions of using it long term. If anything it will make a resume look better... Do as you wish but I surely think that this is the way to go.
You may also want to look into traffic watch, banner towing, flying jumpers, etc, etc,... These sorts of jobs seem to be the easier to obtain entry level jobs in the market. Even here most places will require atleast 500 to 700 hours of flight time as the insurance company reqts. will vary.
Also look into some of the local charter outfits in your area since some of these places always seem to be looking for a time/experience builder to fly right seat in aircraft that are type certificated for single pilot operations. You may get lucky, I got my first part 135 sic gig right around 400 hours total time, a lot has to do with being in the right place at the right time. The money is not going to be great but atleast you will be able to build quite a bit of experience.
good luck,
3 5 0
You may also want to look into traffic watch, banner towing, flying jumpers, etc, etc,... These sorts of jobs seem to be the easier to obtain entry level jobs in the market. Even here most places will require atleast 500 to 700 hours of flight time as the insurance company reqts. will vary.
Also look into some of the local charter outfits in your area since some of these places always seem to be looking for a time/experience builder to fly right seat in aircraft that are type certificated for single pilot operations. You may get lucky, I got my first part 135 sic gig right around 400 hours total time, a lot has to do with being in the right place at the right time. The money is not going to be great but atleast you will be able to build quite a bit of experience.
good luck,
3 5 0
Gulfstream 200
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no CFI'ing is NOT FUN.
But it is great experience. much better than you will ever get flying jumpers or traffic watch.
Do like so many before you have, put in a year or two and be done with it. Dont try and re-invent the wheel.
It's a means to an end...if the certificate didnt cost so much I would simply throw it out. Never have any intention on using it again...but it proved to be a good stepping stone.
Nobody ever has any intention on making it a career.
good luck.
But it is great experience. much better than you will ever get flying jumpers or traffic watch.
Do like so many before you have, put in a year or two and be done with it. Dont try and re-invent the wheel.
It's a means to an end...if the certificate didnt cost so much I would simply throw it out. Never have any intention on using it again...but it proved to be a good stepping stone.
Nobody ever has any intention on making it a career.
good luck.
Lead Sled
Sitt'n on the throne...
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For most guys, flight instructing is a necessary "evil". Actually, you can make of it whatever you want. Personally, I find it to be (for the most part) an enjoyable endeavor.
I would highly recommend that you get your CFI and spend some "quality time" teaching. Remember, in any teaching situation, it's always the teacher who learns the most. The same thing applies in aviation. Getting your CFI and actively instructing for a while will teach you things about flying that you will only learn through instructing. In my case, I had an ATP and over 3,000 hours before I got my CFI. I thought that somehow I had "dodged a bullet" by being able to go directly into Part 135 (charter) flying after I got my commercial and instrument rating. I was wrong. I ended up getting my CFI certificate so that I could keep my hand in flying while I went to school full time to finish up my degree. I learned a lot and to this day the lessons are very valuable and useful. Don't avoid becoming a CFI, in my opinion it is a valuable step in your aviation career.
The real question is how long do you need to be an active CFI? My personal opinion is that you'll probably get about all your going to get out of flight instructing after 500 to 1000 hours - more than than and you may find yourself getting burned out. Besides, there seems to be a point of diminishing returns. Remember, there's a big difference between 2,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 2,000 times. Flight instruction tends to fall into the latter category.
Have fun.
Lead Sled
I would highly recommend that you get your CFI and spend some "quality time" teaching. Remember, in any teaching situation, it's always the teacher who learns the most. The same thing applies in aviation. Getting your CFI and actively instructing for a while will teach you things about flying that you will only learn through instructing. In my case, I had an ATP and over 3,000 hours before I got my CFI. I thought that somehow I had "dodged a bullet" by being able to go directly into Part 135 (charter) flying after I got my commercial and instrument rating. I was wrong. I ended up getting my CFI certificate so that I could keep my hand in flying while I went to school full time to finish up my degree. I learned a lot and to this day the lessons are very valuable and useful. Don't avoid becoming a CFI, in my opinion it is a valuable step in your aviation career.
The real question is how long do you need to be an active CFI? My personal opinion is that you'll probably get about all your going to get out of flight instructing after 500 to 1000 hours - more than than and you may find yourself getting burned out. Besides, there seems to be a point of diminishing returns. Remember, there's a big difference between 2,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 2,000 times. Flight instruction tends to fall into the latter category.
Have fun.
Lead Sled
I think if you look, (not in the mills) You might find differently. www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1545986
LAXSaabdude
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bobbysamd
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Instructing
I try to speak plainly and unambiguously, and I say what is on my mind. That doesn't always go over well in flight schools, which are great training grounds for politicians as well as pilots. And you know what they say about politicians. As it was said in the movie, "I want to know the truth." "You can't handle the truth." But I enjoyed (most of) my students and the gratficiation of getting the phone call saying that "I passed" remains indescribable.
Of course, some people just don't want to instruct, because they are no longer "flying" and having the same fun they did while they were in school "flying." Well, welcome to the real world, where it is time to get a job and work your way up. That could mean no "fun" for a while, especially if you can't get a flying job with only your fresh Commercial. Those people should rethink their plans, because flight instructing is the easiest entry-level flying job obtainable. Contrary to popular belief, flight instructors still fly the airplane. They still have to demonstrate maneuvers. All the while, the experience and learning obtained while instructing is unbelievable in terms of quality and quantity. Moreover, airlines like pilots who have a CFI and have instructed.
Just a little more food for thought. Good luck with whatever you decide.
I actually enjoyed most of the six years that I instructed, perhaps because it was flying and the enjoyment therein of going to work. It was flight school politics that I didn't like.Gulfstream 200 said:
I try to speak plainly and unambiguously, and I say what is on my mind. That doesn't always go over well in flight schools, which are great training grounds for politicians as well as pilots. And you know what they say about politicians. As it was said in the movie, "I want to know the truth." "You can't handle the truth." But I enjoyed (most of) my students and the gratficiation of getting the phone call saying that "I passed" remains indescribable.
Probably because the working conditions for most instructors suck royally. But, for those who really enjoy instructing, there are a number of schools that pay well and have great working conditions, notably International Flight Training Academy (Airstaff Inc.) in Bakersfield, California, and Airline Training Center Arizona in Phoenix. Both places operate excellent equipment in state-of-the-art facilities and pay well. Both places really want people who like instructing and want to stay.
Of course, some people just don't want to instruct, because they are no longer "flying" and having the same fun they did while they were in school "flying." Well, welcome to the real world, where it is time to get a job and work your way up. That could mean no "fun" for a while, especially if you can't get a flying job with only your fresh Commercial. Those people should rethink their plans, because flight instructing is the easiest entry-level flying job obtainable. Contrary to popular belief, flight instructors still fly the airplane. They still have to demonstrate maneuvers. All the while, the experience and learning obtained while instructing is unbelievable in terms of quality and quantity. Moreover, airlines like pilots who have a CFI and have instructed.
Just a little more food for thought. Good luck with whatever you decide.
DR400
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I enjoyed my 1000 hours flying jumpers...You don't go far (that's right), but you climb high.
If the DZ is busy, the $$ is good and you migth upgrade from your "rookie" C182 to a C208 or a DHC6...Turbine time is always good to log.
I flew a C182, a C210, a Be50 out of a 2,900 x 30 ft gravel runway, under the Lone Star State sun...Fun time, good time.
You explore your airspeed indicator, enjoy full negatiive VSI range, understand CG shift...and also meet people crazier than you
.BritishGuy
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labbats
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How can you log 1000 hours in a year and a half flying jumpers part-time, when I'm barely scratching that amount as a full-time CFI?DR400 said:1000 h...about a year and a half...Mostly weekends and holidays, with some days flying 8 hours.
Do the maths, at $8 up to $15 per load, not too bad for an "in-between" job
DR400
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Almost every weekend...sometimes a full week (DZs love Spring Break)...average 5 to 8 hours a day.
http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone find a DZ nearby if you are fed up with traffic patterns.
Take care.
http://www.dropzone.com/dropzone find a DZ nearby if you are fed up with traffic patterns.
Take care.
no CFI'ing is NOT FUN.
Speak for yourself. I enjoy it.
You might be able to fly that amount with jumpers in a 182 at an active DZ, pushing 45 minutes to an hour per load for high loads. But not in a Caravan, when its' only .3 up and down. 15 loads is a busy day, figure at 4.5 hours at .3 a load. Figure 100 good jump days a year, for weekends (few if any DZ's see continuous jumping on the weekdays). That's closer to 450 hours a year at a busy DZ, in a Caravan.
Speak for yourself. I enjoy it.
You might be able to fly that amount with jumpers in a 182 at an active DZ, pushing 45 minutes to an hour per load for high loads. But not in a Caravan, when its' only .3 up and down. 15 loads is a busy day, figure at 4.5 hours at .3 a load. Figure 100 good jump days a year, for weekends (few if any DZ's see continuous jumping on the weekdays). That's closer to 450 hours a year at a busy DZ, in a Caravan.
DR400
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Avbug you are right...In this case turbine time does not help a time builder (especially a low timer).
Also CFI'ing, if a pilot wants to reach a commercial career, is a good way to sharpen your regs for future interviews.
I enjoyed both, I recommend both....Better than PFT .
Just don't fall in the routine and stay focus on your goal.
Also CFI'ing, if a pilot wants to reach a commercial career, is a good way to sharpen your regs for future interviews.
I enjoyed both, I recommend both....Better than PFT
.Just don't fall in the routine and stay focus on your goal.
BritishGuy
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I agree. I'm dropping jumpers right now in a 182. The problem is I only get around 35 hrs a month. I enjoy it. But it's not half as busy as they told me it would be. to be honest with you, for 35 hours a month, I could earn the money in a 'regular' job (I used to work for investment banks) and buy the 35 hours. So I'm getting a little peed off right now. I'm going to head back to Investment Banking and fly pay for my hours. I'll make more money (and we all need to be fed!) than the $8 a load I get now....and even if I bought the hours, I'd be better off. Just need to do a cost analysis. And believe me the odd 2-3 loads per day is all you make. You're pushing VFR minimums when the clouds are in, are pushed though it to get the job done.....not worth risking the licence, especially when the FSDO is on the next field (less than a mile away!) Don't get me wrong, if you're kept busy and you get the 100hrs a month (that you're promised!) then yeah stick it out for a few months to get the total time up.....otherwise, I'd instruct at a busy school....but then saying that, those jobs were hard to come by too.....busy school jobs that is.
P
pilot_guy
Slingin' Meat
Well, british, it's like this. I've dropped meat, and I'll be honest with you, it's all in where you are located. You're right about getting pushed though. Skydive monkeys don't care about the aircraft or F.A.Rs. They want you to bust clouds or climb through "sucker holes" just so they can bail. If they had an escalator that accepted "20"s, they would ride that up to 11,000msl.
As far as pay goes, this isn't the job for a family man. Then again, most entry-level aren't for those who have fiscal obligations. I hate to say it, but this is a young man's game, and those who can move easily, and don't have families or car notes to worry about will be more marketable as we can survive on 40 hours or so a month, sleeping at the DZ, eating McNasty's, and showering in the group showers.
DZ life is unlike anything in GA. These DZ rats are unlike pilots in almost every sense. Afterall, how many of us are willing to leave a perfectly good airplane? I'm not. If you're lucky, you'll get hooked up with an operator who cares about his airplane, and not his tandem loads, and if you're really lucky, he'll pay you! I've dropped meatbombs in a 182, and I'll admit, it was a blast! But, you have to go in with the attitude that this isn't Flight Options or some fractional with great conditions. Then again, I suppose attitude accounts for much of it in aviation. If you bite the bullet, move for the summer to a place with good weather, then it wouldn't be unrealistic to log up 300 or 400 for 4 months. You won't get rich, but you won't be paying to fly either, and that's the end game for most of us.
If you can buy your time, I applaud you. I wish I had a "real" job that could feed me and my habit of time in the book. Not trying to be a smarta$$ at all, just that most of us are in hock up to our a$$es and gotta get time whatever way we can, even if it means living in places we wouldn't normally, or flying junk. You're right though, you have to have a line you won't cross, cause they will ask you to risk your ticket for their pocketbooks. Everyone bends the rules, just don't get caught blatantly breaking them.
Take care, and I wish you luck man. For DZ400, where were you dropping meat in Texas? Think they have any openings for a 182 guy?
Well, british, it's like this. I've dropped meat, and I'll be honest with you, it's all in where you are located. You're right about getting pushed though. Skydive monkeys don't care about the aircraft or F.A.Rs. They want you to bust clouds or climb through "sucker holes" just so they can bail. If they had an escalator that accepted "20"s, they would ride that up to 11,000msl.
As far as pay goes, this isn't the job for a family man. Then again, most entry-level aren't for those who have fiscal obligations. I hate to say it, but this is a young man's game, and those who can move easily, and don't have families or car notes to worry about will be more marketable as we can survive on 40 hours or so a month, sleeping at the DZ, eating McNasty's, and showering in the group showers.
DZ life is unlike anything in GA. These DZ rats are unlike pilots in almost every sense. Afterall, how many of us are willing to leave a perfectly good airplane? I'm not. If you're lucky, you'll get hooked up with an operator who cares about his airplane, and not his tandem loads, and if you're really lucky, he'll pay you! I've dropped meatbombs in a 182, and I'll admit, it was a blast! But, you have to go in with the attitude that this isn't Flight Options or some fractional with great conditions. Then again, I suppose attitude accounts for much of it in aviation. If you bite the bullet, move for the summer to a place with good weather, then it wouldn't be unrealistic to log up 300 or 400 for 4 months. You won't get rich, but you won't be paying to fly either, and that's the end game for most of us.
If you can buy your time, I applaud you. I wish I had a "real" job that could feed me and my habit of time in the book. Not trying to be a smarta$$ at all, just that most of us are in hock up to our a$$es and gotta get time whatever way we can, even if it means living in places we wouldn't normally, or flying junk. You're right though, you have to have a line you won't cross, cause they will ask you to risk your ticket for their pocketbooks. Everyone bends the rules, just don't get caught blatantly breaking them.
Take care, and I wish you luck man. For DZ400, where were you dropping meat in Texas? Think they have any openings for a 182 guy?
BritishGuy
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I had totally forgotten about this post. But glad it's surfaced again. Since that last post I decided to call it a day in June 2004. I went 3 wks without flying, hence no money and was finding myself in a position where cash advances on the credit card were being made. I decided to jack it in. I had to. Now looking towards greener pastures...I hope....(if theres such a thing!)
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