ALPA's take on the UsAir merger

[abefly]

Bingo!!!! We have a Winner.

Not sure, but it appears from the outside that they have a 'list' that basically means NOTHING. Even if they get National to give it to the company, the AWA guys can pin it up on the wall and stare at it, but it still means Nothing without a combined contract.

And, before the list i guess they had some good 'unity' and maybe (a big maybe?) that they could push Drunk Parker (if they caught him when he was really drunk and confused), that they might have gotten 'a little' something from Mr. Low Cost Parker; but NOW, pretty much ZERO chance of ever seeing a combined contract. All the guys I know at US Air say they are going to vote "NO" on everything, so where do you AWA morons think you're going to get the votes???? They would rather take the attrition they got, become 'block holder F/Os, wide-body F/Os, or upgrade to Capt., what would you do. They are getting more QOL with the attrition and seniority gains.

And, I hear you AWA guys on here talk about the US Air guys wanting to 'burn the place down' but I have not heard that, most all are just 'doing their jobs' nothing more though. The only one who is NOT doing his job and trying to 'tear the place down' is the Drunk, Moron that you AWA guys call 'Your leader.' The only reason they are making money is because of the 'yield' on the old US Air system, and the fact that Drunk Dougie is not spending money on $hit. The guys I know over there have lost count of how many 737s have the APUs out, plus everything else he is F#&king up on!!!

I guess you guys can enjoy the 'list' if you get it, but not sure it is ever going to mean anything.

Just my $0.02, now rant away AWA morons.

DA

You my friend are an idiot!!! Enough said! Next!

 

[m80drvr]

Bingo!!!! We have a Winner.

Just my $0.02, now rant away AWA morons.

DA

Damn you are a tool.

 

[FDJ2]

That is why we need some leadership from the top to put in place a system that will keep the current quagmire from happening again....and it will, that is a given.

A350

It's not a quagmire, the policy has binding arbitration which both sides agreed to, overseen by an arbitrator both sides agreed to. There is a definitive end to the process, it's just that one side doesn't seem to want to play by the rules they had agreed to in the beginning.

 

[ferlo]

Bingo!!!! We have a Winner.

Not sure, but it appears from the outside that they have a 'list' that basically means NOTHING. Even if they get National to give it to the company, the AWA guys can pin it up on the wall and stare at it, but it still means Nothing without a combined contract.

And, before the list i guess they had some good 'unity' and maybe (a big maybe?) that they could push Drunk Parker (if they caught him when he was really drunk and confused), that they might have gotten 'a little' something from Mr. Low Cost Parker; but NOW, pretty much ZERO chance of ever seeing a combined contract. All the guys I know at US Air say they are going to vote "NO" on everything, so where do you AWA morons think you're going to get the votes???? They would rather take the attrition they got, become 'block holder F/Os, wide-body F/Os, or upgrade to Capt., what would you do. They are getting more QOL with the attrition and seniority gains.

And, I hear you AWA guys on here talk about the US Air guys wanting to 'burn the place down' but I have not heard that, most all are just 'doing their jobs' nothing more though. The only one who is NOT doing his job and trying to 'tear the place down' is the Drunk, Moron that you AWA guys call 'Your leader.' The only reason they are making money is because of the 'yield' on the old US Air system, and the fact that Drunk Dougie is not spending money on $hit. The guys I know over there have lost count of how many 737s have the APUs out, plus everything else he is F#&king up on!!!

I guess you guys can enjoy the 'list' if you get it, but not sure it is ever going to mean anything.

Just my $0.02, now rant away AWA morons.

DA

Wow, I guess pabst was on sale down at the piggly wiggly today.

I have no sympathy for a group of "professionals" that tried, for years, to staple the entire west coast because they feel that they are somehow "better". Obviously if they had any semblance of judgement they would have left that rotten whore of an airline years ago but still held on...on perpetual reserve...in hopes they could thrust their career woes 0nto sombody else. well it didn't work. Binding is Binding.

Any contractual B.S. they're going to pull is going to further jeopardize their careers. The east is in the drivers seat of nothing. They're either going to be replaced, or come around and claim some bullsh..t victory later on...even though it will be obvious that they threw their own under the bus just to keep what meager positions they had.

Prater is nothing but a Coward who is willing to squander the small resources of this national union. Perhaps the death of ALPA will be the only bright light in this fiasco.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I blame ALPA because since the flying boat days, they have had zero success in unifying pilot groups. This is the fundamental reason the profession is where it is today. No unity. Failure of one is generally a boon to another.

Fer sure! I'l never forget August 28, 1998...when all the former-Republic pilots at NWA, still angry over the list integration, chose to cross the picket line and go to work during the strike.

No unity, that.

Ignoring for a second your igorance of history, let's just focus on the fact that no codified Policy mandated by ANY union is going to ensure that all pilots in a merger will be happy, content, and convinced the resultant list is "fair".

 

[Occam's Razor]

I personally don't blame ALPA on the strife between the east and west. However, I DO think ALPA has become about as useful as tits on a nun.

Check out "Change Of Habit"! They totally worked in that one!

ALPA is us. We be ALPA. It ain't Mr. Smith's "invisible hand". It ain't penicillin. It's pilots doing union stuff.

You're upset at a structure.

Fine.

Whattya gonna do about it? Start another union? Where will the pilots running that union come from...Mars?

I think the current predicament at *ahem* Northwest...*ahem*...Airlines is a shining example of that.

Me too! Just got our second big contract improvement in two months, and 4 of the 6 top "irritants" with our contract have been fixed. Not bad. There's still a lot of work to be done, but I like the trend.

Perhaps a FDX pilot could weigh-in here and tell us how ALPA has totally failed them in the past few years. But that, of course, would just illustrate my point that it ain't "ALPA"...it's the enviornment and the pilots.

You can still be bitter though. Bitter works. (I own stock in the company that makes Maalox!)

The easties are the only group who has unwaveringly stuck to their guns so far and REFUSE to be screwed in the post 9/11 era, ALPA or no ALPA.

Man...that tequila works fast, huh?

Are you saying the USAirways pilots have avoided all concessions and givebacks since 9/11?

 

[JT8D]

Me too! Just got our second big contract improvement in two months, and 4 of the 6 top "irritants" with our contract have been fixed. Not bad. There's still a lot of work to be done, but I like the trend.

This is a direct reaction by management in response to the "sick out". If that is what ultimately works in the end, why do we need ALPA?

Are you saying the USAirways pilots have avoided all concessions and givebacks since 9/11?

Nope. But they are the ones who are finally not budging an inch on an issue (despite all of the threats) that they feel is right (in the post 911 era).

Have a nice day.

 

[Old School 737]

This is a direct reaction by management in response to the "sick out". If that is what ultimately works in the end, why do we need ALPA?


Nope. But they are the ones who are finally not budging an inch on an issue (despite all of the threats) that they feel is right (in the post 911 era).

Have a nice day.

Too bad it's pilot vs. pilot and not pilot vs. management!!

 

[viking737]

Fer sure! I'l never forget August 28, 1998...when all the former-Republic pilots at NWA, still angry over the list integration, chose to cross the picket line and go to work during the strike.

Did NWA operate during the strike?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Did NWA operate during the strike?

Yes, they did.

No airplanes flew, since the pilots were on strike...but the mechanics showed up and worked on aircraft. The Res agents came to work, and I understand the floors at the headquarters building were super-clean!

I think you're kinda missing the point. Had the pilot group...a post-merger pilot group...not been unified, you would not have seen the confrontation between management and ALPA.

You're entitled to your own opinions...but not your own facts.

 

[Occam's Razor]

This is a direct reaction by management in response to the "sick out". If that is what ultimately works in the end, why do we need ALPA?

It's your lucky day! I'm not gonna club you like a baby seal for your lame logic. I'll simply point out that the achievements, however they were prompted, resulted from a negotiation and ratification by ALPA.

You can PM me with your effusive thanks at my mercy.

Nope. But they are the ones who are finally not budging an inch on an issue (despite all of the threats) that they feel is right (in the post 911 era).

Got it! The barn doors are now securely latched and triple-bolted.

How many horses are left inside?

Have a nice day.

Wilco! Right back 'atcha!

 

[Diesel-9]

Shack!

 

[JT8D]

Got it! The barn doors are now securely latched and triple-bolted.

How many horses are left inside?

Oh, if you're an AAA pilot, you're thinking that there may be a few horses left in the barn...OVER!

 

[sgmick]

I have officially escaped. I got the letter today. I declined a return to AAA and couldnt feel better about it. I will closely follow your quest for a FAIR integration, if it ever happens.

For now, get parity and keep EARNING a profit while the west loses money as usual. I hope and pray that something positive comes of this abortion of a decision.

Stay strong, fight the good fight, and know that some of us that chose not to return wish you everything that you DESERVE. Something you didnt get with the nicoldoodle award.

Fights ON!

 

[Green]

The level of ignorance on these boards can be downright depressing...Did you look under the surface of the quarterly results? Are you aware that many Us Airways charges were billed to the America West certificate? Do you realize that a large amount of AWA revenue is credited to US Airways???

Most amusing is your statement "for now, get parity and keep earning a profit...." Do you think Parker would just hand over parity without a joint contract? He has stated MULTIPLE times that he will not grant parity without a joint contract. He may be reckless and unlikeable but the guy is not an idiot...

 

[JetMonkey]

I have officially escaped. I got the letter today. I declined a return to AAA and couldnt feel better about it. I will closely follow your quest for a FAIR integration, if it ever happens.

For now, get parity and keep EARNING a profit while the west loses money as usual. I hope and pray that something positive comes of this abortion of a decision.

Stay strong, fight the good fight, and know that some of us that chose not to return wish you everything that you DESERVE. Something you didnt get with the nicoldoodle award.

Fights ON!

What did they deserve, to staple the west? They're earning a profit only because the company decided to grow a little internationally on their side, and gain a hell of alot of feed from west of the mississippi. Not to metion the fact that there even STILL here all because the west was willing to stick their neck out and merge. The west deserves a little something too for all they've GIVEN UP don't forget. BTW good choice, and good luck.

 

[MELVIS]

WOW! Being proud of being the bottom, US pilots sure of proud of their stand. Great place to put in an app. Over and over give up RJ's, flush you junior guys's, wave over your shoulder at the pension; yeah you guys really stood up for the profession. You want sympathy now? I actually know a few guys over there that are great. But we should all feel bad because your former scope allowed RJ's to take over so many mainline jobs? You are not alone, Delta had the first but US made it Cool to fly on rented metal. You US guys crack me up its about you until it's about you. Your MEC lies to you; not just this seniority thing but all through your history and you think , "yeah, this is a good idea". Wake up! You are losing money in your wallet. The profession is in the tank and your leaders are leading with the word "RUN". I'm sure all ALPA members and the profession at large are thinking that maybe US is not the leader we need now. US-AW was supposed to be the first, but with these guys; well, maybe CO or UA or even NW will pull us out of this mess. US pilots or more imortantaly their leadership has once again done nothing to further the profession. Let them know what you think. ALPA does'nt follow their own rules, why should we follow their's?

 

[Occam's Razor]

Oh, if you're an AAA pilot, you're thinking that there may be a few horses left in the barn...OVER!

Cool. Now we have a common wish that could (be still my quaking heart!) lead to an awkward, but satisfyingly fraternal cyber-hug between us!

I think there are some fundamental things left that AAA pilots (East & West) can build upon...but only if they decide to work together. From this outsider's view, however, it looks like the rancor between the groups is giving AAA management a major woodie.

And that's sad.

 

[Swaayze]

I have officially escaped. I got the letter today. I declined a return to AAA and couldnt feel better about it.

Mind posting your DOH at U and what you're doing now (might help me have more perspective with which to make a decision....)?

 

[Fast43]

Bingo!!!! We have a Winner.

Not sure, but it appears from the outside that they have a 'list' that basically means NOTHING. Even if they get National to give it to the company, the AWA guys can pin it up on the wall and stare at it, but it still means Nothing without a combined contract.


DA

While it is correct that, because of the Transistion Agreement Both sides have to work towards and agree on a contract before the list is used.

At last weeks JNC meeting where Mr Stephans stated that they "are not interested and will not participate i anything that accelerates the acceptance of the Nic list"

As he is making it clear since he said it TWICE that he doesn't intend on living up to the Trans Agreement. Just how long do you think the Company will allow him to hide behind it???