ALPA sacrifices General Lee

[MONKEY]

Most in the airline industry feel that if one major were to go under, ticket prices would rise. If ticket prices go up, the airlines make money..... etc.

ALPA sees this. ALPA understands this. ALPA may be firing up the troops for a strike at Delta. WHY? WORTHLESS understands that if DALPA strikes there is no more Delta. Wages go up, ALPA pilots take no more concessions.

ALPA has seen their revenue drop quite a bit due to concessions. By KILLING Delta, they make a rather large sacrifice, that should pay off huge in the future.

Is this really what's going on? Who knows? Just something to think about.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Really the expansion will be in the LCC market and not in the legacy market. For the short time price gouging might take place. Over the long term, however the loss of one of the legacy's will not help out the cause.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Delta won't strike. They'll just die a very slow death like United and Airways and Northwest and... It's going to take a long time to sort this out. Until airline CEO's take a lesson from the PETROLEUM industry and RAISE PRICES...... Ugh. My Subway sandwich costs twice as much as it did a few short years ago. So does my gas. So does my electricity. So do the...well...

You get the picture.

I still buy the stuff.

Why don't my airline tickets go up just a LITTLE bit?

 

[Going2Baja]

It's not a "right" to fly it's a privledge. Save your $$ and then travel or put it on the credit card. Tired of SWA white trash going coast to coast for $99.

Baja.

 

[General Lee]

Most in the airline industry feel that if one major were to go under, ticket prices would rise. If ticket prices go up, the airlines make money..... etc.

ALPA sees this. ALPA understands this. ALPA may be firing up the troops for a strike at Delta. WHY? WORTHLESS understands that if DALPA strikes there is no more Delta. Wages go up, ALPA pilots take no more concessions.

ALPA has seen their revenue drop quite a bit due to concessions. By KILLING Delta, they make a rather large sacrifice, that should pay off huge in the future.

Is this really what's going on? Who knows? Just something to think about.

I don't see it that way at all. We are standing up to this krap, and ALPA sees it's once pride and joy being smacked around one too many times. IF we go out of business, so does ASA and Comair too, which also provide revenue to ALPA in the form of dues. Losing DL, ASA, and Comair would be a huge hit to ALPA. But, the pilots now at DL won't accept a lame TA with huge holes in scope etc, and ALPA knows that too. They have decided to continue this fight, and it will be played out soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

I know how you see it.

That is exactly my point... ALPA is willing to sacrafice you, and you are willing to be sacrificed.

 

[dojetdriver]

I don't see it that way at all. We are standing up to this krap, and ALPA sees it's once pride and joy being smacked around one too many times. IF we go out of business, so does ASA and Comair too, which also provide revenue to ALPA in the form of dues. Losing DL, ASA, and Comair would be a huge hit to ALPA. But, the pilots now at DL won't accept a lame TA with huge holes in scope etc, and ALPA knows that too. They have decided to continue this fight, and it will be played out soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Since when does mainline (alpa) actually care about their regional carriers? Especially since one of them has been sold off. The amount of revenue (dues) that ALPA gets from ASA/Comair pales in comparison to what they get from DAL.

 

[General Lee]

That is exactly my point... ALPA is willing to sacrafice you, and you are willing to be sacrificed.

We are telling ALPA we won't take it anymore. They are along for the ride. Take a look at the big picture. We are SUPPOSEDLY about $190 million a year apart with the company in concession proposals. (not including Scope or the pension issues) What does that equal a month in savings? About $15.5 million, a month. Will that save the airline? Probably not. We aren't going to fall for that, and if you allow it again, then they will be back for more in 6 months. Nope, we will say no and see if they are bluffing, because they will lose out on all of that new stock (both management and the creditors stand to make many millions of $$$$$$$$), and many many people will be out of jobs, including management. Will they allow that? I don't know. I am willing to find out, because this "great career" has turned into a bad job.

What will happen if we do strike? All DL, ASA, and Comair employees could lose their jobs, and some CHQ, SKyWest, and Freedom (Mesa) employees too. That would be too bad, and I think there will be some more pressure on DL management from the Governor of GA and the heads of those companies too. There will also be backlash across the pond, with certain Skyteam members supporting our would be strike. It would create some huge ripples, and without a contract we are NOT obligated to work.

So Monkey, what could ALPA do to remedy this? We won't take anymore pay cuts, and we won't give up scope. Why are they sacrificing us? I think we are fed up. We vote on any TA, ALPA can't do that for us.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

DALPA is telling ALPA that you are fed up? yeah right.

ALPA is playing with you like a puppet and you don't even know it. That's what's so funny about it.

anyway, you just go on thinking that you are the one calling the shots.

 

[General Lee]

Since when does mainline (alpa) actually care about their regional carriers? Especially since one of them has been sold off. The amount of revenue (dues) that ALPA gets from ASA/Comair pales in comparison to what they get from DAL.

Did you know that we are down to 6400 pilots at DL, from over 10,000? And, the rest of us have had a 47% pay cut. So, I would think ALPA now cares about every dollar.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

DALPA is telling ALPA that you are fed up? yeah right.

ALPA is playing with you like a puppet and you don't even know it. That's what's so funny about it.

anyway, you just go on thinking that you are the one calling the shots.

Wow, you are a genius. You have figured it out, solved the case..... Whatever. WE VOTE ON ANY TA. Got it yet? ALPA/DALPA is responsible to get us a TA to vote on. YOU ARE WRONG. We have a totally different group now that 2300 senior guys have left. That is the gamble. But, you know otherwise......riiiiiiiiiight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

You have about 64% of your pilots left making 53% of the original pay. Those ALPA dues must be way down. No wonder Worthless is willing to sacrifice you. They are only making about 1/3 of what they were off you, and Delta wants to cut it more.

ALPA kills you off to stop the bleeding other places, and you think it's great.

 

[General Lee]

You have about 64% of your pilots left making 53% of the original pay. Those ALPA dues must be way down. No wonder Worthless is willing to sacrifice you. They are only making about 1/3 of what they were off you, and Delta wants to cut it more.

ALPA kills you off to stop the bleeding other places, and you think it's great.

Stop the bleeding at other places? Tell me a legacy carrier that hasn't just signed a new contract for less money? It will take years to get any more increases. ALPA would do better if they kept us around. You are wrong, again. DL/ASA/Comair, even at reduced rates, produce more than some other legacies for ALPA.

But, if it comes down to it, it will be over, and that is too bad. We shall see.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

Thanks for explaining. Oh, wait, I already knew that's what you would say. How does it feel to be a puppet?

 

[dojetdriver]

Did you know that we are down to 6400 pilots at DL, from over 10,000? And, the rest of us have had a 47% pay cut. So, I would think ALPA now cares about every dollar.


Bye Bye--General Lee

UAL's MEC didn't care much about their regional feed pilots, ie; ACA, and Air Wisconsin. I don't really see DAL's taking a more defensive stance on the behalf of the "commuter" pilots that work for the companies that provide feed to their employer.

How many CA's are at DAL? All grossing over 100K a year. How many CA's are at Comair/ASA? Granted, some of them may be making over 100K, but not nearly as many as their "commuter" brethern.

The 1.95% they get from the "commuters" still lags far behind what they get from the 47% less at DAL.

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for explaining. Oh, wait, I already knew that's what you would say. How does it feel to be a puppet?

Thanks Leo Mullin...... Can you say WRONG? WRONG AGAIN there man. I am soooooo glad you can see through the murk and really see what is exactly happening. Wow. Do you know the lottery numbers too? Yeah, I thought so.


But I knew you'd say that......riiiiiight. Good one. Can't debate on the issue, so you throw in one of those.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

I think most of the clearly thinking world understands my point. I don't have to defend it. Take it for what it's worth (just a little food for thought). Do I think it's true? probably. Do I think you are a puppet? Without a doubt.

 

[General Lee]

UAL's MEC didn't care much about their regional feed pilots, ie; ACA, and Air Wisconsin. I don't really see DAL's taking a more defensive stance on the behalf of the "commuter" pilots that work for the companies that provide feed to their employer.

How many CA's are at DAL? All grossing over 100K a year. How many CA's are at Comair/ASA? Granted, some of them may be making over 100K, but not nearly as many as their "commuter" brethern.

No, they have their own MEC's. We care about our own scope, because it is costing us jobs. DL wants unlimited scope, and we are saying a big fat NO. If they want to liquidate because of that, then they will. We are not fighting FOR ASA or Comair, but they will be hurt too if we liquidate. That would suck for everyone, but we aren't giving in. They should be HOPING we keep our scope, so they can maybe have a job.

Yes, plenty of CA's at DL make over 100K. But you don't see something, and that is that most of the ones that are left are PI$$ED. Why? Their pensions went down the toilet. They are 48 years old, have 20 years or so with the company, and now they may have to work longer for less retirement. They are ready to strike too if things don't stop going down the krapper. And remember, we have promised to strike ONLY if our contract is THROWN out. We can still negotiate and get a TA, but the members then will vote on it, and that is where it could get messy. IF the contract is thrown out though, expect an immediate strike.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I think most of the clearly thinking world understands my point. I don't have to defend it. Take it for what it's worth (just a little food for thought). Do I think it's true? probably. Do I think you are a puppet? Without a doubt.

You can think that, you are allowed to have an opinion. Most of the time people can back up their opinions, with facts or articles that contain your point. I have seen nothing like that from you. But, feel free to think what you want, but that doesn't make it so. I am telling you my opinion---I THINK YOU ARE WRONG.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MONKEY]

I know how you feel. We went over that already. All your facts seem to back up my argument. I don't even have to post them, since you are doing it for me.

I do wish you luck as first year FO at Virgin America, or where ever you end up.

 

[General Lee]

I know how you feel. We went over that already. All your facts seem to back up my argument. I don't even have to post them, since you are doing it for me.

I do wish you luck as first year FO at Virgin America, or where ever you end up.

Say what? Kookoo. Kookoo. All my facts back up YOUR argument.... Well OK then......Goodnight Leo Mullin.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Shrek]

Monkey......you my friend are a ToOl.........

 

[Thedude]

Since when does mainline (alpa) actually care about their regional carriers? Especially since one of them has been sold off. The amount of revenue (dues) that ALPA gets from ASA/Comair pales in comparison to what they get from DAL.

From a drunken moment.

Gee Monkey, what new iteration of flamer are you....

Once again, when did contractors start making the rules. With out mainline there would be no commuters...I mean regionals for the newbies.

Should guys flying 70 seaters as Capt be making 100k?? of course...but then again those airframes should be at mainline anyway

After an agrement is reached, DAL will start showing record profits within the next 2 yrs. And what will it take to get back what those guys have given up?

Do I have a dog in this fight...well yes and no..I dont work for Delta but anything they do now affects the rest of us directly. And by directly...i mean the rest of the industry.

Now if you little newbies would sit back and listen to guys that have been around like GL you might just learn something

 

[storminpilot]

I think most of the clearly thinking world understands my point. I don't have to defend it. Take it for what it's worth (just a little food for thought). Do I think it's true? probably. Do I think you are a puppet? Without a doubt.

You are correct.

Rewind to the late 80s, Capt. Hank Duffy (Delta), ALPA President, who said that we had to "hold the line" against Lorenzo, all while the longer Eastern was on strike the stronger Delta became in Atlanta and the rest of the country. Eastern needed to go so that the rest of the industry could stablize.

Fast forward to today, Capt. Duane Woerth, (Northwest), ALPA President, who says that he will not sign any "concessionary" agreement. All while Northwest (his real employer) struggles in bankruptcy waiting for someone to fall so they can get stronger and stabilize.

Monkey is right, all the carriers have accepted their pay adjustment and have moved on, if the Delta pilots want to fight then they too shall become a part of history. Too bad General you can't see the "forest for the trees".

Anyway, as the Delta pilots march towards the April 15 decision date, it will be interesting to see who will be right.

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks for explaining. Oh, wait, I already knew that's what you would say. How does it feel to be a puppet?

You sound like a real tool. Very supportive of your peers (unless you are a member of management). Instead, you should appreciate the fact that the Delta guys are trying to hold their ground and maintain wage levels as they spiral out of control in the industry...

No, you would rather kick a guy when he's down. Good work.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

You can think that, you are allowed to have an opinion. Most of the time people can back up their opinions, with facts or articles that contain your point. I have seen nothing like that from you. But, feel free to think what you want, but that doesn't make it so. I am telling you my opinion---I THINK YOU ARE WRONG.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee:

This is my opinion:

SHUTTUP!

 

[On Your Six]

General Lee:

This is my opinion:

SHUTTUP!

Classy response. You clearly can't defend yourself or your opinions - you prefer lame one-liners...

I don't know why people blast the General so much - he has an opinion and he backs it up with facts. Sure, he can be crass - but at least he takes a position and tries to back it up. This is an information forum - right? Then you see lame responses like this and you wonder why this business is going down hill...

 

[WWEfan]

Monkey has a point

The Delta pilots sure do paint a lot of doom and gloom, but I'm not buying into it. If Delta goes away, sadly Comair will too due to their affiliation with big D. What's really sad is that Comair was an outstanding company until Delta got their grubby hands on them. I can only thank God that ASA was lucky enough to be sold off to a more competent organization.

But like Monkey said, Northwest will be circling like vultures over the ATL airport along with all the other majors if Delta liquidates. Investors are probably lining up outside UAL, CAL and AMR begging for the chance to plug money into an ATL operation. In fact, Delta will be replaced so fast it will make General Lee's head spin. I'm sure some LCC's will want a piece of that pie too, but with Airtran being the dominant force in ATL I doubt the Southwests and JB's will be too interested.

Also, Jerry Atkin mentioned in one of his pilot lounge visits that talks are already under way to secure Comair's 70 seat leases in the event of a liquidation. He has a bid on CAL express flying and he is discussing ATL feed opportunities with other carriers that swoop in on Delta. Sounds to me like Jerry has a plan with multiple backups. ASA will take a hit initially from a Delta walkout, but they will stay on their feet and prosper long term.

You really think Delta controls ASA's future? Riiiiight. LMAO!

Bye Bye, General Lee!

 

[WSurf]

If Delta strikes, they could be shut down! I remember with SwissAir, it was shut down duing the pilots striking for more money. Crossair there regional airline then took over the airline after is was officially shut down. Crossair is now hiring SwissAir pilots!! Could this happen here? Imagine a Delta Guy slinging the gear for a ComairAir guy!!! I know for a fact that Delta Guys will not STRIKE!!! General, I love ya man.... But mark my words.. Ya won't strike!!

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHeft/FRH0204/FR0204f.htm

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

I just purchased a nice house in Peachtree City, GA, designed, built, and owned by a Delta pilot.

After I moved in, I realized there were no ventilation fans in any of the bathrooms.