ALPA Pay....SUCKERS!! LOL

[habubuaza]

Then STFU and fly. If you don't want to be in ALPA, don't. It is still a free country.

FJ

Yeah jerky, and free country means freedom of speech and I am expressing my discontent. Have a problem with that?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I vaguely remember back in the mid 90s the ALPA leadership saying ALPA pres should be paid the salary of the highest dues paying member's contract rate. This may or may not be true from back then, but I know it isn't true now.

All you members should pass resolutions to this effect at your next LEC meetings and force it to the floor at the next BOD. ALPA has been great for individual legal & medical help but the internal national politics of the union stink.

Ralph,

Since you "vaguely" remember this happening, can you share with us what you did immedicately after that very BOD? I mean, what did you do THEN to get things changed?

You are now asking members to introduce resolutions at thier next LEC meetings? Oh whose behalf? What if they don't want to? And, could you please show us an example of said resolution, just incase someone might need some direction with this matter.

And, what constructive actions are you taking now, to get this changed.

Tejas

 

[habubuaza]

If we, Air Line Pilots don't exist on Capital Hill, then yes, we won't matter. That Air Line Pilots don't understand this is unbelievable. That Air Line Pilots have to feel good about the politicians they support, emotionally, indicates a lack of understanding....

Unbelievable

There is nothing emotional about supporting the candidate who most mirrors your views on security for you, your family and your country. I would argue that all of the Airline Pilots who didn't support ALPA's stance on politics understood everything.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There is nothing emotional about supporting the candidate who most mirrors your views on security for you, your family and your country. I would argue that all of the Airline Pilots who didn't support ALPA's stance on politics understood everything.

Got to disagree.

Air Line Pilots like most people are quite emotional when it comes to thier politics. Politics is quite like ones own DNA. It is who they are. Many Air Line Pilots say my grandpa would spin in his grave if he knew I joined a union. People define themselves by thier Brand loyalty, including politics.

One can further thier own agenda by cherry picking thier issues. Or by going al la carte. When you show up once every four years to vote and do nothing else you are giving carte blanch to whomever you voted for. Many a GWB voter are quite disapointed with some of his issues lately. Did you think by voting for Bush that you'd be supporting illegal immgrants and controversial Port security? Work the issues not the politician.

Also, keep in mind, the phone lines from ALPA to the White House are cut. There is zero communication. GWB does not care about Air Line Pilots, our work rules, our pay and our retirement. He is politically aligned with Corp America. And that is fine. However, we must get politically aligned with the candidates that support us.

If you aren't prepared to defend this profession, then why are you in it? Is it just a good part time gig while you collect a retirement check from another career? There are some of us who have been dedicated from day one. This is all we got. We defend this profession politically. That is it.

Before the last presidential election, I spoke to a fellow pilot about who to vote for as an Air Line Pilot and the sole breadwinner in his family. After the election I asked and he said, you know, the pro-life issue is just too important for me....!

Huh?

Sure abortion is an important issue. It is controversial, polarized and emotional. How about this issue: Providing for your family. Is that controversial? To me that is as clear cut as it gets! I could understand if the abortion issue was affecting your ability to make a living. But since it is not, then it is really emotional and is it more important than paying your mortgage?

Not only do I want to pay my bills, I want to prosper! Are we prospering right now?

You support the politician who supports your issue. If that means the split is 70/30 for Dems, then so be it!

 

[Huck]

Someone a whole lot smarter than you lot once said, "We can either hang together, or hang seperately."

Only thing worse than a whining union pilot is a whining at-will pilot. Been there, done that, took a week off without pay because "the quarter wasn't as good as expected." I'll keep my 80 year old union thank you.

Run for your LEC. Go to meetings. And SHUT THE F$&^#^% UP ON THIS BOARD!!!! I for one am in contract talks and public disharmony does nothing but make filthy-rich labor lawyers guffaw into their cognac when they see this.

And for the millionth time, the numbers are total employee costs, including health care, SSI, etc.... Congrats - you bit down hard....

 

[GogglesPisano]

Saw a sticker once: "United we bargain, divided we beg."

 

[av8n]

Benjamin Franklin stated at the signing of the Declaration of Independence - "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yes he did...But it's ashame the average line pilot today hasn't been able to figure that out yet.


PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

In U.S. airline fights, pilots often the last workers standing

Source: Comtex News Network (Associated Press Worldstream)

Airlines are a big union industry, and the big dog in every airline union fight is the pilots. So it's not surprising that they ended up as the last holdouts in the pay-cut negotiations at Northwest and Delta airlines.

The biggest pilot union, the Air Line Pilots Association, has a reputation for being a tough negotiator, but the list of its largest members reads like a who's-who of recent airline bankruptcies _ US Airways Group Inc., UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp.

On Friday, Northwest and its pilots reached a pay-cut deal. Delta's request to throw out its pilot contract was headed for a mediator.

To stay alive, bankrupt airlines have leaned _ hard _ on employees for pay cuts and more flexible work rules. Pilots, who can make $150,000 (?124,800) or more, have been a prime target, putting ALPA in one of its toughest fights since its founding in 1931.

ALPA isn't showing any signs of backing away from the fight. President Duane Woerth rallied Northwest pilots in Minneapolis on Feb. 23, telling them that the airline industry is poised for better times and that they'll be a part of it.

Mechanics and flight attendants generally haven't been able to shut airlines down with strikes. Pilots can. And they know it.

"They are hard and sophisticated negotiators," said Ben Hirst, who was Northwest's vice president for labor relations during a round of concessions in 1993.

"The difficulty in negotiating with them is, if they believe their position is right, they really will take it to the mat," Hirst said. "There's a lot of testosterone."

ALPA can throw a phalanx of lawyers, analysts and actuaries at high-stakes negotiations like the ones last week with Delta and Northwest airlines.

The pilots union has a history "of looking at the airline from an economic standpoint, from an investment standpoint, of really trying to understand the business they're negotiating with," Hirst said.

Woerth said several full-time staffers were working with Northwest union negotiators in New York, and about 60 staffers worked full-time on Northwest talks at ALPA headquarters, with plans to shift their attention to Delta talks next.

But all those union experts can't force airlines to make money. Older airlines (the ones started before government deregulation in the late 1970s) have been in deep trouble in recent years, pummeled by a punishing mix of terrorism fears, rising fuel prices, and discount carriers who grab lucrative routes and often pay their employees less.

The only time that was nearly as bad for ALPA was when Continental broke a pilots' strike in 1983, said George Hopkins, a recently retired airline labor historian at Western Illinois University in Macomb, Illinois.

"But I think now is worse. At least there was a semblance of congressional support for labor unions in the 1980s," he said.

And he said pilots face a danger at least as bad as pay cuts now _ slashed pensions. Federal rules force pilots to retire at age 60, before they're eligible for Social Security or Medicare. So their pension is crucial to their retirement, but those payments are slashed when bankrupt carriers slough off their pensions on the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.

While ALPA is the largest pilots' union, it isn't dominant. Pilots at AMR Corp.'s American Airlines _ the United States' largest _ and Southwest Airlines Co. each have their own unions. And many of the newer discount carriers are not ALPA-represented.

"ALPA has been slowly eroding in overall power," said Alan Bender, who teaches airline labor relations at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University. And a loosening of rules barring foreign airlines from flying within the U.S. could hand more pilot jobs to non-ALPA pilots, he said.

Hopkins, the historian, said ALPA hasn't had a friend in politics since Republicans took over Congress in 1994, and unions generally have been representing a shrinking share of the work force.

"I have a good deal of respect for Woerth. He's a keen student of the history of his union and his profession," Hopkins said.

"He understands where the industry has been, and where it's at right now. But I don't think anybody knows where it's going."

 

[HalinTexas]

Rez:

Before the last presidential election, I spoke to a fellow pilot about who to vote for as an Air Line Pilot and the sole breadwinner in his family. After the election I asked and he said, you know, the pro-life issue is just too important for me....!

Huh?

Sure abortion is an important issue. It is controversial, polarized and emotional. How about this issue: Providing for your family. Is that controversial? To me that is as clear cut as it gets! I could understand if the abortion issue was affecting your ability to make a living. But since it is not, then it is really emotional and is it more important than paying your mortgage?

If it wasn't taken out of context, it sounds like you're advocating crossing picket lines.