ALPA on Emirates and Etihad

[Freight Dog]

General, the trouble is that US carriers should *LEAD* the industry worldwide... not celebrate catching up.

I truly hope that US airlines do something innovative to knock the rest of the world on their collective a$$es. We pioneered this industry and then fell asleep at the wheel, turning it over to bean counters.

 

[flyboyike]

I see it first hand. Usually 1/3 of the flight I am back in the rest seat and I have seen improvements, in attitude and product. But, you can't just change anti discrimination laws overnight. Also, not "acting" a certain way might have dire consequences for employee groups out there, and I doubt most are married with kids. That might not be a bad thing, but external forces controlling your life literally (they house you and provide transport) may seem a bit overwhelming.

I see it first-hand, too, and on more than one carrier. It's not just about anti-discrimination laws, it's about priorities. Unfortunately, to US carriers the customer is not a priority, only his money is. It's not the same thing.

As for "external forces controlling my life", nothing I'm not used to. I'm in my seventh year of my life being controlled by scope clauses I had no vote on, RFPs I had no input on, incompetent managers I didn't hire and so forth. I don't think this is an industry in which one can truly be independent.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Too much talk about anti descrimination laws as if this was the only issue as to why airlines in the US don't even make the top 30 ranking worldwide, airlines like KLM, JAL, ANA make the top ten year after year and they have as strict labour laws to content with as we do in the US. Maybe a little competition is actually a good thing!

 

[BobbyBiplane]

It's the customers, ...

As long as your neighbors want to pay Walmart prices for their air travel, the business will produce Walmart products. It is clear to me from speaking with my US neighbors and family that they do not value a high quality air product and don't want to pay for one. They virtually all want minimum price and are willing to accept almost anything to keep the airfare down to the absolute minimum possible.

To mis-quote a prior politico; "It's the customers, stupid."

Bob

 

[General Lee]

General, the trouble is that US carriers should *LEAD* the industry worldwide... not celebrate catching up.

I truly hope that US airlines do something innovative to knock the rest of the world on their collective a$$es. We pioneered this industry and then fell asleep at the wheel, turning it over to bean counters.

It's tough to "lead worldwide" when you don't have oil rich governments backing your loans, or when your company (EK) takes advantage of cheaper loans given to the UAE by the EX IM Bank for cheaper 777s. Face it, that is ridiculous, and that bank is supposed to help impoverished countries with loans, not the UAE. DL, Hawaiian Air, and ALPA are currently suing to stop that subsidy, but admit it, that isn't fair. The US legacies have all gone BK after 9-11, and have pretty much rebuilt themselves to compete, and are doing a great job without the backing of a government. How many airlines can afford an orderbook with 180 A380s and 275 777s? Not many.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

As long as your neighbors want to pay Walmart prices for their air travel, the business will produce Walmart products. It is clear to me from speaking with my US neighbors and family that they do not value a high quality air product and don't want to pay for one. They virtually all want minimum price and are willing to accept almost anything to keep the airfare down to the absolute minimum possible.

To mis-quote a prior politico; "It's the customers, stupid."

Bob

Bob,

It is the customer, and US legacies are finally making money again without oil rich Gov't help, and reinvesting in their products. New terminals are being built, new interiors with lie flat seats, new menus, new uniforms for employees. But, you have make money to do that, and all 3 US legacies, even having been through BKs, are poised to do that. DL has paid down $6 billion in debt too over the last 3 years while investing in new terminals, planes, and products. Things are getting a lot better.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[overseas boy]

Delta could order 180 A380 and 275 777's then just take another trip down Chapter 11 lane to get better financing!!! Sounds like state sanctioned help via federal law

 

[General Lee]

Delta could order 180 A380 and 275 777's then just take another trip down Chapter 11 lane to get better financing!!! Sounds like state sanctioned help via federal law

Hi, that makes no sense. Boeing wouldn't agree to that, but, they love you guys getting "special" financing via the Ex Im Bank. That needs to stop. Actually, protectionism, like Austria just announced, needs to start up everywhere to protect national interests. That wouldn't help you guys at all.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[overseas boy]

Ok. I'll make it a little simpler, Delta could order and take delivery of 180 A380's and 275 777's then like before realize they can't meet their obligations that they agreed to and take another trip into chap 11 to force lower finance payments. We get it General you love Delta and that's a great thing but you love also the sound of your own unique ramblings and by heaven it's just tiring for the rest of us. Like a broken record. You can call it debating all you want I think those in another profession would call it narcissism. Debate away.

 

[Green]

General do you think Air France/BA/KLM/Lufthansa could just unload their pensions onto the government? Looks like Dal and the rest of the US carriers have a huge (possibly even unfair?!) cost advantage over the Euro carriers. To claim EK/QR/EY are the only ones being supported by the government is silly. Ch11 has been used in the US to wipe debt and lower future obligations. The US government is run by and for corporate America. If we are going to be honest don't claim the US airlines are fighting the good fight. They have screwed their employees and creditors mercilessly during the past 12 years.

I understand you live and breathe Delta but lets be honest here, even if it is flightinfo.com