ALPA National changes policy, now supports Age 65 retirement

[eaglefly]

Worst. Reasoning. Ever. And you f**kin' boomers think my generation is selfish...

Why do folks have such a hard time realizing someone like myself will never recoup the total wealth I stand to lose with a 5 year delay in my career progression, even if I'm at the top of my earning potential for an extra 5 years?

I am sympathetic for the loss of pensions because it negatively affects everyone in this career ...but why should young/junior/furloughed pilots have to finance the retirement of old/senior/employed pilots? Especially when you consider these same folks have been in the very top percentiles of wage earners in the US, that emotional appeal is hogwash.

If having enough money at retirement was an issue, why didn't "healthy 60 year old regional pilots" take a job with a much higher earning potential years ago? After all, its not like Age 60 retirement is a new thing..

I betcha I won't. I like my job flying airplanes for a living, but I have no intention of subjecting myself to 12-14 hour duty days with 4-7 legs a day, 14-17 days a month, for 42+ years of my life.

This whole change from 60 to 65 retirement doesn't have anything to do with becoming ICAO-standard or abolishing age discrimination. It does have everything to do with $$$. Age 65 is just as arbitrary an age as 60 is, its just 5 years later. It is entirely possible that in 1, 5, 10 or 20 years I'll look back and be thankful for all this and wonder why ALPA hadn't been more proactive...but I seriously doubt it.

Well son, the writing is on the wall.

You got two choices :

1. Deal with it.

2. Find another career.

What's it gonna be ?

 

[CopilotDoug]

... "giving those guys a chance to do something for themselves" is coming at my financial expense. Many older pilots had to eat a sh!t sandwich and it may or may not have been because of something they themselves did or did not do...but why make me take a bite, too?

Dude...I feel like Milton waiting in line while the last few pieces of cake are being handed out to the others. These old farts gotta go! I have a career time-line to keep pace with, and now this puts me behind schedule!!!:bawling:

 

[Flybet3]

Hope you folks that were apathetic to this change don't mind your career being postponed another 5 years; you'll never makeup the lost income.

Please be sure to tell those who benefitted their whole careers from advancement due to Age 60 but recently decided such rule was unfair "your welcome"...because their windfall is at your expense.

And how old are you exactly chump?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Dude...I feel like Milton waiting in line while the last few pieces of cake are being handed out to the others. These old farts gotta go! I have a career time-line to keep pace with, and now this puts me behind schedule!!!:bawling:

Spoken like the true $hitbag that you are, greedy, want everything now, without having to work for the bare minimum. I for one am glad that this will prevent you and your poor judgment from commanding anything larger than the crap barge you are currently in. With any kind of luck you will become quickly frustrated at your lack of advancment into the left seat of the 787 and be caught jacking off at the kindergarden fence that you loiter at when not at the charity employment position you had your parents buy for you.
No cake for you, just a Swingline Dash-8, painted with shiny paint.
PBR

 

[CopilotDoug]

Spoken like the true $hitbag that you are, greedy, want everything now, without having to work for the bare minimum. I for one am glad that this will prevent you and your poor judgment from commanding anything larger than the crap barge you are currently in. With any kind of luck you will become quickly frustrated at your lack of advancment into the left seat of the 787 and be caught jacking off at the kindergarden fence that you loiter at when not at the charity employment position you had your parents buy for you.
No cake for you, just a Swingline Dash-8, painted with shiny paint.
PBR

I wouldn't expect you to see it MY way...if you're older than 28..then get outta my way, GRANDPA! There's alotta 747's out there with the left seat just calling my name!

 

[Black Hawk]

All that's happening is the changing of an outdated safety oriented rule. Unions, pilots and contracts will adjust to the change.

 

[filejw]

For all you guys that think this is a new issue. I remember a Capt at Southern running a marathon distance to work on his last day to prove a point back in like 82/83.These change the Age 60 rule folks have been working on this along time.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I wouldn't expect you to see it MY way...if you're older than 28..then get outta my way, GRANDPA! There's alotta 747's out there with the left seat just calling my name!

You are right junior, until the horrible day you achieve the much entitled 4th stripe, you will just be a gear monkey, nothing more than an inflight amusement package for your unfortunate Captains, who because of the cramped cockpit cannot avoid watching you jackoff onto the control column hitting the mic, which you will soon pick up to make your "we are now flying over the hog processing unit at Hormel" PA. Much to the annoyance of your pax who just wanna be left alone and endure the ass-stench wafting up from the unwashed seats and cracked and missing trim on the soon-to-be freight hauling taco-wagon. You are immaterial, your spidermonkey attention span will cause you loose interest and get the job you are most qualified for, lead grill/fry cook at the bowling alley. The only 747 left seat you will occupy will be in the front row of the economy section, where you will annoy the pax with your innane commentary. Seems like you annoy everyone you come into contact with from Capts, to pax on planes you fly on to, yes, the internet. I bet your parents are glad you are away from the basement you "rent" from them 5-6 days a week, and stuck whacking off in the crash pad in ORD you call home now, where the only people you annoy with the above mentioned jerkin' manuvers are your room mates. Now go back to airliners.com and rub one off to your fav JPG of the vaunted 74 of your fantasies.
PBR

 

[Poahi]

Greed and fear. This is what shapes the stock market and turns pilots against eachother.

 

[BoilerUP]

And how old are you exactly chump?

Old enough to chuckle at all the Flightinfo tough guys like yourself...

 

[Flybet3]

Old enough to chuckle at all the Flightinfo tough guys like yourself...

giggity

 

[CopilotDoug]

Hope you folks that were apathetic to this change don't mind your career being postponed another 5 years; you'll never makeup the lost income.

This is an outrage!!! I have a career path time-line I need to keep up with here, people! I shouldn't have to endure this because I am above it!!! (according to Embry Riddle)

Do you know what this means?!? I will have to stay at a regional THAT much longer!!! Dammit, I only wanted to fly a wide body for the majors!!! I didn't sign up for this!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Many older pilots had to eat a sh!t sandwich and it may or may not have been because of something they themselves did or did not do...but why make me take a bite, too?

Bon Appetite!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Do you know what this means?!? I will have to stay at a regional THAT much longer!!! Dammit, I only wanted to fly a wide body for the majors!!! I didn't sign up for this!

I love when some punk complaints about flying a regional jet with a 1000 hours and wanting to fly heavy iron with less than ten years in the business
You didn't sign up for what? Work? Sorry to tell you this but, that is what adults do

 

[John Pennekamp]

Well old wise one, maybe ALPA IS supporting the majority (the recent poll perhaps) and understanding that Congress is going to change it regardless of what ALPA does. Just deal with it. You'll get your turn in the left seat.

If that were the case, they would have released the results of the survey.

Guess it's yet another case of wise ALPA reps taking care of us stupid pilots, regardless of what we want... as discussed by an ASA ALPA rep the other day.

 

[ASARJMan]

If that were the case, they would have released the results of the survey.

Guess it's yet another case of wise ALPA reps taking care of us stupid pilots, regardless of what we want... as discussed by an ASA ALPA rep the other day.

As I stated, the FAA and Congress are going to change the rule regardless. ALPA wants input while the ruling is being discussed. Smart move on ALPA's aprt I think.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

For all you young guys crying about the age 65 rule save your energy, you will need it to make it to 60. The health problems you will face flying high speeds, mixed with day trips, and being pushed to the limits on duty time and minimum rest not to mention the mental toll of trying to keep a family together will most likely do you in before 55.

 

[Poahi]

ALPA can be opposed to the chance and still provide input.

A fool is someone who doesn't realize he's being screwed.

 

[Beetle007]

THERE ARE THOSE WHO WILL BE CAPTAINS FOR 5 MORE YEARS.

THE REST OF US WILL BE F/O'S FOR 5 MORE YEARS.

AND GET 5 YEARS LESS RETIREMENT.

AND DIE SOONER......

And some who will be unemployed/furloughed an additional 5 years.

 

[DX Rick]

giving those guys a chance to do something for themselves" is coming at my financial expense.

If you were really worried about your financial expense, you would have never gone to the regionals, or into the aviation industry at all.
You're just pissed because you realized your little pipe dream sucks, being away from home 20 days a month and making the crap pay that you do, isn't worth it.

Somebody get this biatch a tissue.

 

[DX Rick]

I cannot avoid watching you jackoff onto the control column hitting the mic,

above mentioned jerkin' manuvers are your room mates.

Now go back to airliners.com and rub one off to your fav JPG of the vaunted 74 of your fantasies.
PBR

You must be a blast to fly with. All you do is think about your FO's playing with themselves. Even in the other post, you mentioned how you like to think of them rubbing one out infront of little kids.
You're one sick puppy. Puppies like need to be put to sleep.

 

[DX Rick]

You must be a blast to fly with. All you do is think about your FO's playing with themselves. Even in the other post, you mentioned how you like to think of them rubbing one out infront of little kids.
You're one sick puppy. Puppies like YOU need to be put to sleep.

Missed a word, my personal editor took the holiday weekend off.

 

[BoilerUP]

If you were really worried about your financial expense, you would have never gone to the regionals, or into the aviation industry at all.

My financial situation now is just peachy...but if you can't wrap your head around the long-term career (hence financial) ramifications of this change for a young/junior/furloughed pilot you are either naive, stupid, or both.

You're just pissed because you realized your little pipe dream sucks, being away from home 20 days a month and making the crap pay that you do, isn't worth it.

Wrong on all counts, but if you really want to believe that, be my guest.

Somebody get this biatch a tissue.

Don't need a tissue there, Chief, but thanks for the concern.

Only on Flightinfo is someone "bitching" when they stand in opposition to your point of view, even when facts and figures are presented to support their position. I love it....

 

[CopilotDoug]

As posted on another website...

You speak of a sense of entitlement in younger folks...just what do you think old folks have??? I've heard a bunch of incredulous attitude from pro-change folks that older pilots are seemingly "owed" another 5 years because of their 1. seniority, 2. sacrifices post-9/11, 3. loss of pensions or the most foolish of them all, 4. age. Older pilots have fought their battles and faced their adversity; younger pilots will do the same in their time. Why should I have fo fight for both? Why should my earning potential and career progression fund their loss of pension, ex-wives, toys, and financial mismanagement simply because of my young? If that's not narcissistic, I don't know what is!

The absolute only thing I feel "entitled" to is the same benefit of career progression as a 59 year old had when he was in my shoes. Actually, I also feel entitled to folks telling the truth about this whole deal...its not about "the right thing to do", its not about ICAO, its about money....

Want some cheese with that whine?

 

[BoilerUP]

As posted on another website...

You're stalking my posts on APC?

Want some cheese with that whine?

Funny. The pro-change crowd has called me spoiled, whiny, bitching, stupid, etc...but nobody has once offered a logical reason as to why my position is flawed or otherwise "incorrect". Nobody has once addressed in a reasonable manner the negative impact this will have to the career and earning potential of junior, furloughed, and young airline pilots.

I've been nothing but upfront and honest about what is motivating me...is that too much to ask of everyone else?

 

[Minimaniac]

What irks me most about age 65 is the timing of all this. So much pro-65 sentiment is coming out because so many pilots are nearing retirement and do not have enough saved. I know pensions were raped, but that is a seperate legislative battle. Make congress rule that pension obligations are obligations, and that underfunding that occurs during the years prior to bankruptcy must be paid back to the employees, and that pensions can only be frozen, not removed. But DO NOT make everyone else pay for your shortfalls. Because of age 65, I will now be stuck at a lower pay rate for 5 years, and with a lower QOL as a regional FO and soon junior regional Captain. This comes at a time when I am trying to support my newly growing family; I am now going to have to suffer through lousy schedules for five years longer, during the years when my presence at home is most needed.
You can tell me that i am here by own choice, but rest assured your lack of compassion for the pilots who have been trying to follow in your footsteps will not go unpunished. Try non-revving as a retiree on my flight, after you made me miss 5 more of my children's birthdays, and after I missed 5 more years of family holidays and get-togethers, and after I had to listen to YOU for for five more years telling ME that I am ruining the industry and that I am responsible for the race to the bottom. I will leave your old sorry ass sitting in the terminal til the next flight...then maybe you can miss your grandkids graduation.
You reap what you sow... you can erase my bitterness during your five more years by making changes that benefit your junior brethren. The unions will listen to you, becuase you can hold executive seats, and you pay the greatest dues. But if you continue to demand personal windfalls and leave the rest of us to rot, rest assured I will leave you to rot as well.

 

[CopilotDoug]

You're stalking my posts on APC?

I thought this post looked familiar...

Funny. The pro-change crowd has called me spoiled, whiny, bitching, stupid, etc...but nobody has once offered a logical reason as to why my position is flawed or otherwise "incorrect". Nobody has once addressed in a reasonable manner the negative impact this will have to the career and earning potential of junior, furloughed, and young airline pilots.

Dude, where do you get off lecturing other pilots on this? You've been a pilot HOW long and you're complaining about how bad you're going to have it? What sacrifices have you made in the name of being a pilot? What mountain of experience are you preaching from? How many grey hairs are on your head because of divorces, fatigue, substance abuse, health issues, and financial problems? But I get it...you read a couple of Ernest Gann books while studying aviation in college, and that's like walking a mile in his shoes. Probably logged some time in "The Two" while you were at it, right? With that kind of experience, who SHOULDN'T listen to you?

Using that as an insight, it comes across as pretty selfish for you to tell someone else who really gave something for their career to get out of your way.

 

[BoilerUP]

Once again...insulting and attacking me personally, instead of my position.

Using that as an insight, it comes across as pretty selfish for you to tell someone else who really gave something for their career to get out of your way.

I've not once said "get out of my way", or "lectured" anybody. Regarding a change in the retirement age...some folks are going to make out like bandits, for others it will be a wash, and finally there will be those that have their careers stagnate and their lifetime wealth diminish as a result. I'm in the last category, and to console me with "At least you'll get another 5 years too!" is naive, bordering ignorant. You may not like or agree with my opinion, and you might think I'm being selfish, but you can't honestly say there isn't a major downside involved for a large portion of ALPA members.

Some guys didn't expect their pensions to be lost. I didn't expect the (long-standing) rules to be changed in the middle of the game for the benefit of those senior to me. Might be the first time, but I'm sure it won't be the last.

Expectations are a bitch, aren't they?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Expectations are a bitch, aren't they?

That's my advice to anyone interested in Aviation...you'll do fine as long as you don't have any expectations.

 

[Rizzo]

ALPA sucks and it's a total conflict of interest that they represent both majors and regionals.