ALPA ...like 1930's Germany...agree or youre out!!

[spitfire1500]

US Airways Local Council 41 Put in Trusteeship
Executive Council votes unanimously to remove officers for failing to provide necessary support to ALPA

March 3, 2008​

The Executive Council voted unanimously today to take “emergency corrective action” by placing Local Council 41 (US Airways, Philadelphia) into emergency trusteeship. The vote terminates the terms of Capt. Eric Rowe, chairman and captain representative; Capt. Dave Ciabattoni, vice chairman and first officer representative; and Capt. Jim Portale, secretary-treasurer. ALPA President Capt. John Prater appointed Capt. Clyde Romero and Capt. Jack Lawrence (both members of Council 41) to serve as trustees of Council 41.
The president instructed the trustees to fully represent the pilots of Council 41 in all matters pertaining to their membership in ALPA. The US Airways MEC will continue to make all decisions concerning the affairs of the US Airways pilots.
Although no hearing is required at the Executive Council level, the Council offered the three former officers the opportunity, which they declined, to make a presentation, either in person or by telephone. A full hearing before the Executive Board will be held within 30 days to formally consider the charges and allow the three former officers to present their views.
The Executive Council found that the three local council officers demonstrated a pattern of support for a rival union in the upcoming NMB representation election, including distributing anti-ALPA communications through ALPA channels and failing to provide necessary support for ALPA in connection with the NMB representation election.
The president asked the three former officers specifically to confirm that they support ALPA in the representation election, that they oppose USAPA in the representation election, and that they will urge the Local Council 41 members to vote for ALPA. None of them would make such statements.
Why now?
Simply put, the Council 41 officers have consistently failed to confirm their support for ALPA in the upcoming election. When asked by Capt. Prater, the three officers failed to say that they stood behind their union and support a pro-ALPA vote.
Last Friday, Capt. Prater sent the three Local Council 41 officers a “Notice of Charges and of Executive Council Meeting to Consider Charges Pursuant to Article XIX, Section 1.D.” The Notice was the basis for emergency corrective action in the form of a trusteeship as provided in Article XIX, Section 1.D of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws.
Capt. Prater requested the Local Council 41 officers send written statements to Vice-President Administration Capt. Bill Couette making clear their support for ALPA and opposition to USAPA in the NMB representation election, and their commitment to urge Local Council 41 pilots to vote for ALPA. While they did email a response to Capt. Couette, they failed to make the commitment to state their support for ALPA and against USAPA.
“Many of you have urged me to take this action for many months,” Prater wrote the Executive Board on Friday evening. “I had hoped that these three elected officers would stand up for their union. However, with the NMB representation election for US Airways pilots beginning on March 20, the stakes are too high for US Airways pilots—and the actions of these officers far too hurtful to our union—for me to delay further.”

 

[Jmoney]

Arbitration....

Did these US Air guys not agree to "binding arbitration" did they not lose? What am I missing here?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

A year late and a few hundred thousand dollars short.

 

[Bringupthebird]

1930's Germany? Are you for real?

Traitors have been hung for their treason around the world for centuries. These guys have been removed from office before they can mis-use ALPA funds any more. That's a far cry from Germany in the 30's.

What about USAPAs rule that former ALPA leaders cannot serve in USAPA for a certain amount of time following their ALPA service? That smacks of Stalin. Why can't USAPA members choose whomever they wish to serve them?

From what I can gather, USAPA thinks a little corruption is okay, just look the other way for a few more weeks.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I'm wondering what took them so long.

 

[regionaltard]

ALPA ...like 1930's Germany...agree or youre out!!

There are some similarities between USAPA and 1930's Germany-is that what you meant to say?

 

[spitfire1500]

1930's Germany? Are you for real?

Traitors have been hung for their treason around the world for centuries. These guys have been removed from office before they can mis-use ALPA funds any more. That's a far cry from Germany in the 30's.

What about USAPAs rule that former ALPA leaders cannot serve in USAPA for a certain amount of time following their ALPA service? That smacks of Stalin. Why can't USAPA members choose whomever they wish to serve them?

From what I can gather, USAPA thinks a little corruption is okay, just look the other way for a few more weeks.

Last I checked these guys were elected by their peers. If they are taken out of their position it should be by their own. Misuse ALPA funds....you mean their own dues money! So if my council starts to have some policies national doesn't like .....do they just boot our whole council too!
I agree there is binding arbitration and it should be followed. I'm not arguing that.... THe fact this is just going to make those ALPA members on the fence about the 2 unions make up their minds for USAPA with big brother telling them what to do.
From what I gather in many instances ALPA seems to think a little corruption is OK too....actually a lot of corruption
You should get real...Treason...you mean like Washington, Adams and Frankilin....depends on point of view.

 

[mach none]

Using ALPA resources to further the USAPA cause was a major reason for the trusteeship.

 

[furloughed dude]

I don't blame these guys for wanting an independent union. Prater is a complete loser and while he is office, ALPA gets what it deserves. I am with an ALPA carrier, and would be happy to go independent as well. All they care about is their dues money......


US Air, tell ALPA to f off!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Last I checked these guys were elected by their peers. If they are taken out of their position it should be by their own.

You mean like Randy Cunningham and Tom DeLay?

You should get real...Treason...you mean like Washington, Adams and Frankilin....depends on point of view.

Nah, more like Ames, Hannsen, and their ilk. Individuals who have a legal and ethical obligation to NOT do what they did while in their office.

 

[ferlo]

I don't blame these guys for wanting an independent union. Prater is a complete loser and while he is office, ALPA gets what it deserves. I am with an ALPA carrier, and would be happy to go independent as well. All they care about is their dues money......


US Air, tell ALPA to f off!

would you still be "all for" and independent union if the majority of your new union "brothers" intended to staple your as= and steal your career?

You are grossly misinformed about the USCABA situation.

 

[Green]

Last I checked these guys were elected by their peers. If they are taken out of their position it should be by their own. Misuse ALPA funds....you mean their own dues money! So if my council starts to have some policies national doesn't like .....do they just boot our whole council too!
I agree there is binding arbitration and it should be followed. I'm not arguing that.... THe fact this is just going to make those ALPA members on the fence about the 2 unions make up their minds for USAPA with big brother telling them what to do.
From what I gather in many instances ALPA seems to think a little corruption is OK too....actually a lot of corruption
You should get real...Treason...you mean like Washington, Adams and Frankilin....depends on point of view.

come on man think a little. Do you think USAPA will allow their reps to use USAPA dues to help boot USAPA off the property??? You have to work within the framework of the union you belong to. Imagine if all the UAL alpa reps suddenly decided that cabotage was a great idea. Prater would be forced to stop them from using Alpa resources to promote an anti-alpa cause. PHL reps using alpa resources to actively promote the demise of Alpa is a no-brainer.

 

[TWA Dude]

Newsflash:

Talk about hypocrisy. Read http://jmcilvenna.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/day-3-clt-crew-room/

The AWA MEC Chairman was in CLT to answer questions and USAPA complained and management acceded by giving him the boot.

Management is looking forward to USAPA because it'll be the next best thing to having no union at all.

 

[seahorse3]

Any proof that the Council 41 LEC was misusing ALPA funds or actively recruiting for USAPA? Does disagreement with the ALPA Executive Council constitute 'treason'? Does actively petitioning ALPA to redress wrongs constitute treason?



Lots of spouting off by folks who don't know all the facts...The three "booted" reps have actively worked within the framework of ALPA, albeit not agreeing with Prater. Most of the US Airways guys I know of would be happy to continue with ALPA if and only if ALPA started to act in the interest of the pilots and in accord with ALPA policy. ALPA national has long ago lost sight of its mandate...and Prater will continue to run ALPA into the ground and leave them open to MORE lawsuits with his rough handling of this situation.

 

[ferlo]

Any proof that the Council 41 LEC was misusing ALPA funds or actively recruiting for USAPA? Does disagreement with the ALPA Executive Council constitute 'treason'? Does actively petitioning ALPA to redress wrongs constitute treason?



Lots of spouting off by folks who don't know all the facts...The three "booted" reps have actively worked within the framework of ALPA, albeit not agreeing with Prater. Most of the US Airways guys I know of would be happy to continue with ALPA if and only if ALPA started to act in the interest of the pilots and in accord with ALPA policy. ALPA national has long ago lost sight of its mandate...and Prater will continue to run ALPA into the ground and leave them open to MORE lawsuits with his rough handling of this situation.

A total crock of horse-sh*t. The PHL SCAB REPS stole OUR ALPA dues money, via FPL to subvert the union of over 60,000 pilots. They got caught and trusteeship is the least of their personal problems. The Mob isn't the only group that can be convicted of misappropriating Labor Union funds...aka, RICO.

ALPA national should sue these rat SCABS into personal BK oblivion before they start their jail time.

These EAST guys have lost their F*ing minds!! There is zero hope of overturning the Nic. award and they cannot stall forever, (despite what the uSCABa dildos are telling them). In the near future, The legal system will be called into play again. A rational person would think that would be something the East would want to avoid since is backfired so badly the first time.

They're already in violation of the transition agreement. They must, for their own good, come to their collective senses now. This game of russian roulette their playing is with a fully loaded gun.

uSCABa is nothing but a group of flaccid, impotent old decrepit men throwing a temper tantrum. They full of sh*t from top to bottom. They have no answers, no direction, zero support outside of the East pool of lunatics, no money, no infrastructure, and no hope of surviving more than a handful of very painful, expensive years.

As a bargaining unit, they'll be BK in short order when a judge orders them to pay all of the legal bills of the West. WAKE UP IDIOTS

 

[seahorse3]

WOW, Ferlo---take a deep breath, man....and put the coffee down!!

So, the use of FPL to use their time to fight what they perceive to be an injustice by the ALPA leadership and the arbitrator constitutes fraud and abuse? Any rough estimate on how much FPL was billed for their time? Or just throwing around accusations?.....

There is a large contingent of pilots, some young, some not so young (most certainly not decrepit old men) who have had to file a lawsuit in order for ALPA to own up to the fact that they gave a seniority list they knew to be flawed to the arbitrator...a point that was openly pointed out to be an error by the pilots chosen to observe the proceedings. That is the basis for the lawsuit...time will tell whether the preponderance of the evidence will convince a judge or not.

By the way....I would support you just as eagerly if you had evidence that the seniority list given to the arbitrator for your pilot group was seriously flawed.

Any proof to the rumor that all...all...the other unionized groups at AAA and AWA reached agreements utilizing seniority as the mechanism for merging the lists? Not that ALPA is bound to follow such a simple, time proven concept........

 

[ferlo]

Seahorse,

I do drink too much coffee, however let's be honest. USAPA was born as a direct result of the Nic. award. Re-ordering the seniority list is their prime and solitary mission. They are delusional enough to believe that their simple majority can, with impunity, impose whatever they want on America West. Hence the SCAB designation. They ignore, (because it's the easiest thing to do) the fact that recent legislation specifically prohibits that from happening.

What you're referring to is a separate issue that is ancillary to their Nic. problem. It's incredible how far people will go to believe what they want to believe. USAPA organizers are a pack of scrambling liars trying to divert attention away from the fact that it was US Airways own elected officials, that screwed the pooch so badly.

They, at the rabid insistence of the pilot group, got way, way, way to greedy, (DOH - staple all of America West). They wanted to make up for 20 years of a nearly worthless career at the sole expense of completely innocent America West pilots, in one single windfall. Well, hogs get slaughtered. USAPA hasn't learned that lesson yet. How many times do they need to get their asses handed to them.

Even if they end up winning this sham of an "election", it will ultimately be just another huge loss. USAPA cannot function for the sole benefit of the EAST. They will be sued out of existence in short order because there is no way they can fight a DFR suit. Ironically, USAPA will be DOA if successful. They're promising the world to the East. They're selling as one huge "do over" for their pathetic careers. It's impossible. USAPA cannot even begin to fulfill their promises.

 

[MCDU]

Tell that to the number one guy at USAIR EAST. Had him on my J/S PHL to TPA. DOH 01/23/1973. He hates ALPA and cannot wait to vote for USAPA. The top 500 are almost all going to vote out ALPA and they did get their DOH. So no, its not all about the flawed list that shows active pilots holding positions as ALPA officers as furloughed even though they were holding union positions. How is that possible?Alpa says you can not be furloughed and hold a ALPA position like treasurer. WTF

Marty

 

[MCDU]

They wanted to make up for 20 years of a nearly worthless career at the sole expense of completely innocent America West pilots

How times change.

It has not been 20years. It was 9/11 that changed everything. USAir was a great place to be. Best work and best pay. Then 9/11 and the whole thing changed.

 

[ferlo]

Tell that to the number on guy at USAIR EAST. Had him on my J/S PHL to TPA. DOH 01/23/1973. He hates ALPA and cannot wait to vote for USAPA. The top 500 are almost all going to vote out ALPA and they did get their DOH. So no, its not all about the flawed list that shows active pilots holding positions as ALPA officers as furloughed even though they were holding union positions. How is that possible. Alpa says you can not be furloughed and hold a ALPA position like treasurer. WTF

Marty

I wonder about the top guys. They'll be sitting there ready to cast their vote...5 more years to work...no pension...sh*t payrates...and they'll be thinking about, expensive assessments from USAPA, (expensive because the west won't pay a dime). Many have "round 2" families...young kids at home who'll need to go to college...I wonder how they'll vote?

Do you think a senior US AIR captain is going to throw away potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars, just a few years away from a wrecked retirement just because of some pissed off F.O.'s? How's the record of the senior US AIR guys eating their young?

Easy to wear a lanyard, hard to vote for the poorhouse. We'll see.

 

[Carl S.]

Flawed list, MDA pilot status and various problems only pop up when the arbitrator ruled. Sounds like an attorney who wants to retry his case after a loss. No do overs in binding arbitration unless corruption is found. Nic. still retains jurisdiction on the award, why not question him about the "flawed" list that the East presented.

 

[MCDU]

Yes, we will see. The numbers will speak for themselves.

 

[ferlo]

They wanted to make up for 20 years of a nearly worthless career at the sole expense of completely innocent America West pilots

How times change.

It has not been 20years. It was 9/11 that changed everything. USAir was a great place to be. Best work and best pay. Then 9/11 and the whole thing changed.

ALPA got you Parity +1%. "Best work and best pay"? ALPA again. You forgot that part. Fact, you have Jr. F.O's with 20 years longevity. Post 9-11, it was Wolf and his sidekick Hadji that parked over 100 jets in the desert...not ALPA. That's where the jobs went, not to America West.

You want to upgrade fast? Go to the mojave and sit in left seat of the stripped out carcass of your former airline. The East isn't entitled to anything. Seniority, is not longevity and you know it.

Look Familiar?http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/0370186&prev_id=0413958&next_id=0621603
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USAir/Boeing-737-3B7/0341946&prev_id=0331430&next_id=0867553

 

[Crzipilot]

Actually wolfie got us parity +1%. at the time alpa viewed it as a concessionary contract, until the numbers turned in our favor. At that point the GAG thumped their chests in all the glory of saving the day....

 

[Prog 2/2]

Yes, we will see. The numbers will speak for themselves.

Yep.

And the numbers always reside on the side in the right, don't they?

What you are trying to do is simple tyranny of the majority.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It has not been 20years. It was 9/11 that changed everything. USAir was a great place to be. Best work and best pay. Then 9/11 and the whole thing changed.

Then sue and blame 9/11