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ALPA chest thumpers

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acaTerry said:
Yeah ALPO takes care of pilots...like the 2 drunks at AWA. Those 2 should have been left out dry. They forfieted they're protection by doing something that stupid. I'm still flabbergasted by that.
Oh and they took my union dues to campaign for a candidate I totally opposed. And they allowed the whole job to go to he!! in a handbasket while Duane Woerth(less) was sparing no effort writing stern letters about lasers. What better way to spend 3%!
No, they're not what they used to be, but I guess that's still better than working non-shop. A weak union is better than no union.
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Just to clear this one up - ALPA PAC contributes money to campaigns - ALPA PAC gets all of their funds from donations.........NOT 1 CENT is taken from member dues.

You knew that right?! Or did you assume?
 
TurboAWD said:
Let's see, of the top of my head:

Prevented the company from lowering gaurentee (this alone worth >2%)
Prevented the company from increasing health care costs (this alone worth >2%)
Prevented the company from imposing a 5% pay cut for CA's.
Prevented the company from implementing Pref bid with no warning, no training, and no trial runs.
Helped MANY people get their jobs back (MOST of whom didn't deserve termination)
Years and years and years of helping to make regulations, airplanes, and airports safer.

And lots more.

If you don't like the way things are run at your MEC, volunteer. I bet you haven't even called your rep to discuss your problems with the association, have you? If not, then STFU, pay your 2%, and keep watching from the cheep seats.

Turbo
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Your company has different medical bennies for different work groups? Where I work everyone has the same benefits. If the company wants to raise premiums, they will union or not because it affects the entire company.
 
Rekks Inbound said:
Oh, let's see:

1) Helped save medical because of a bad (faulty) EKG/ECG read.

2) Helped keep job when a minor (read total non-event) incident occured (would have been fired anywhere else).

3) Helped keep job vs. issue with vindictive check airman.(check airman fired from training dept. less than month later, after investigation requested by union).
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If it was that minor and the mgmt works well with the pilots, why would you have been fired if you had been non union?
 
The safety structure alone is worth your dues.

Ask a non-union pilot: who is going to represent you on an NTSB investigation team if you get killed? Answer: management pilots.
 
If asking for more money and a better schedule for myself and my fellow pilots is a "welfare" mentality...I'd like to know your version of a "Generous" mentality. Doesn't everyone look up to the FedEx contract because of it's great commuter clause in the contract? <----Sarcasm...for the lack wits

If ALPA were all volunteers, that's one thing. But the minute you take my money, yeah, I'm going to be bitter when the MEC suggests the pilot group take a paycut and National doesn't say one word in opposition.

From those who have come before me, I have been told that ALPA has grown very weak.

As for those pilots who are constantly having "non-event" incidents requiring ALPA to bail them out...maybe these pilots should go back to Gulfstream Academy and get their money back.
 
DX Rick said:
I have met a far more Anti-ALPA guys on the line, than Pro union guys. I asked my last captain why that was. He said "You will never find a Union guy flying. Just trying to figure out another way of doing nothing, and getting paid for it"
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ALPA has become a scapegoat for all this S*** that has happened to pilots the last several years. As for the "Union guys" not flying and getting paid for it... well there are a few guys that get out of a lot of flying. However, for the most part, they are very much still working. If it was such a cake gig, why isn't everyone trying to do it? Most comitee members get out of VERY little flying and are helping on their own time.

Turbo
 
fried chickens said:
Your company has different medical bennies for different work groups? Where I work everyone has the same benefits. If the company wants to raise premiums, they will union or not because it affects the entire company.
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Yes, the pilots have ALPA negotiated health benefits that differ from the rest of the employees.

Turbo
 
Don't get me wrong guys. It's not the union concept that I'm bashing, it's what became of ALPO. They have, as an organization, let a lot of pilots down. Take TSA for example...how many visits has Duane made and how are the TSA pilots doing now? Mesa? And CMR? Mesaba?
Let's not get the lone ranger midnight phone calls as an argument here, let's talk about the whole dragon.
Maybe it is time to divorce regional carriers from ALPA and get second union. Then we can have 2 chainsaws instead of one whipsaw (tongue in cheek)!
 
guys focus your anger on management, don't be suckered into turing against the unions... the unions are you, like it or not. Unless you're a company man or Chief Pilot or something..
 
You people make it sound like ALPA is something that you pay a service for and just recieve. ALPA is all of us. YOU vote in who you want to represent you. It is you that pays dues so that you dont have a silent voice in your professional carreers. It is you who votes in a good or bad contract or concession. How many time have YOU gone down to your union office and volunteered. Dont like the way your contract is negotiated, then run for office. I can tell you that the folks who do all of the hard work are volunteers that work extremely hard with much anguish and frustration to themselves so that YOU can have it better. Even SWAPA and NPA pay for ALPA services. If you dont like ALPA then vote it out or better yet dont go to an ALPA carier. If you are not helping yourself by supporting your union then you are a part of the problem in my eyes and many others. Now go play with management they really care about what you will have in your retirement or who is going to pay for your wifes pregnancy or if you paid well enough for your education and skills or how you are going to pay the bills if you break your leg. How do I know? I was management.

If you have a ********************ty contract look no further than your own mirror and the guy sitting next to you. Then you can look at who is running your company. When I ask you if you are willing to strike and put it all on the line for YOUR benefit what will you say?
 
RALPA? Yeah... That'd be a powerful union.:rolleyes:

We regional guys cannot afford to pay for our own union. Can't afford enough lawyers, support staff, etc. Think 2% will cover the expenses? No way.......

However... A mainline only ALPA, albeit will not have as much money to play with, will still be much wealthier and powerful than anything we'd have. You think the major vs. regional issues are big now?

On a side note.... Any contract negotiated by ALPA will have to be re-negotiated under the new union. Think you're going to get half of what you got now? Guess again.

Want to change ALPA in it's current state? Call your status reps, volunteer your time, and lead rather than follow. No one member can make a change, but one unified airline can.......
 
Quote from Co-pilot Doug--If asking for more money and a better schedule for myself and my fellow pilots is a "welfare" mentality...I'd like to know your version of a "Generous" mentality.

Doug what you're stating is not a welfare mentality. However- thousands of people sittin on their fat as#es and "expecting" something is "owed" to them when they didn't lift a finger for it is.

You don't have to be on this job very long before you see that ad in the Mainline inflight magazines that that say's - You Don't Get What You Deserve- You Get What You Negotiate.

When Airlines are making huge profits, Managers are padding their bank accounts with hefty bonuses because of "their" sense of entitlement- I wonder what the union bashers will be saying then. Oh wait- that's already happening at some places. Go ahead and blame ALPA when you don't get your piece of the pie.
 
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Exskydiverdrivr said:
...You Don't Get What You Deserve- You Get What You Negotiate.
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Skydiver

ALPA has shown, through major contract concessions, that their membership doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to carry out a strike if necessary. ALPA has let the pilot's slide down a very slippery hill - one that can't be climbed by "Living to Fight Another Day"

Contrary to this talk about "look in the mirror if you want someone to blame" "Be a leader or get out of the way" (That stuff is for Office Pep Talks)
Leadership does start at the top. ALPA needs some hardcore, pipe hitting, no BS Union muthf*ckas in there to lead and fire up the pilots. A strike doesn't have to be called on every issue, but I'm thinking that a Union which goes into a negotiation and tells Management to find their lost profits somewhere else, and to f*ck the bankruptcy laws they will still strike if they have to, might get some attention. ALPA needs to play by Union rules, not management's or the RLA's. Get back to basics and leave all the Capitol Hill bull$hit to the politicians.
 
I agree Doug..........but there is that little thing called the LAW. Like it or not the RLA is what we negotiate under....period. Don't like it? - change it bygetting a movement to repeal the RLA.

But if you operate outside the RLA the union and it's officials get fined HUGE.........like taking 90% of that 2% that people are complaining about.

I also put forth the notion of rewriting the Bankruptcy laws that have raped ALPA's and other Union's ability to bargain effectively.

Breaking the Law is just that -- and you call yourself an evil "genius" :)
 
DX Rick said:
I read these boards and I hear the ALPA guys saying there isn't any turn outs for meetings or roadshows, or "instead of bitching, help with volunteering" Maybe there is a reason. When I talk to the guys online, they all say "Make your own opinion about ALPA, but I personally thing they don't do sh!t!"
Click to expand...

More welfare mentality. Where is mine? Of course ALPA doesn't do jack, cause they don't do jack. Every ALPA guy that does union work is a volunteer. Many guys have families that sacrfice family time together so ignorant sheep can say ALPA doesn't do jack. Translation: I don't do jack for ALPA.

I have met a far more Anti-ALPA guys on the line, than Pro union guys. I asked my last captain why that was. He said "You will never find a Union guy flying. Just trying to figure out another way of doing nothing, and getting paid for it"
Click to expand...
Getting paid for it? Sorry. It cost money to do ALPA work. ALPA volunteers give up free time and money to to the work that all pilots benefit from. Check your sources cause your data and perceptions are typical and very wrong.

Don't like the quality of the work from volunteers? Maybe raise your dues and hire more staffers...

Do you think the ALPA guys are getting fat on high dollar steak dinners? Well, what do you want your dues to go towards, reimbursing him/her for each hour that he volunteers times his hourly rate or a $30 steak dinner? I can tell you the steak dinner is a great deal..... Plus the guy loses his per deim.

Being new to a Union, I haven't gather much positive about ALPA. Most guys are hostile. From our "meet and greet" when I was a new hire, the Union guys did not come off well to the guys in my class. The first thing they did was hand us the paperwork to fill out the info for when they start collecting dues. When question what the dues entailed, they just said "services"....Sweet, does that include services from the Asian chick with happy endings?
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Have you read Flying the Line? How about Confessions of a Union Buster.

One of the problems with new hire breifing is the company only allows about 30-45 mins. That is not enough time to discuss 75 years. So read Flying the Line, I mean if you are going to invest in ALPA (2%) you should probably read the prospectus.

If you want an asian chick with a happy ending then why not start your own committee. It could be called the "Relaxation and Release Committee". Funny.. not really... but if you want something done then step up to the plate...

THey left us with a bad impression, and if I was a pro-ALPA guy I would be embarrassed by the way these guys represented the union. They looked like they we're out partying all night. Dressed in a uniform they looked like they hadn't washed it in ages, yellowed and wrinkled. We thought they had just gotten day with a 5 day trip, but it turns out they had that day off.
Ontop of it, they spent 45 minutes of constantly repeating themselves "Alpa good, company bad!" Thats all we got out of it. The guy talking couldnt even complete a full sentence. Maybe he was a nervous public speaker.
Click to expand...
No doubt they may have done a poor job.. again a volunteer army. Its hard to demand high performance from someone that is giving up their free time. At least he isn't spewing union hate.

Sound like you may be just the guy to join the membership commitee. Don't let probationary issues stop you....

Hell, I sent the IT department an email trying to get a password for the website....havent even gotten a response back in 2 weeks.
Click to expand...
888-FLY-ALPA ask for your council service coordinator. Let us know how it goes....
 
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Shrek said:
I agree Doug..........but there is that little thing called the LAW. Like it or not the RLA is what we negotiate under....period. Don't like it? - change it bygetting a movement to repeal the RLA.

But if you operate outside the RLA the union and it's officials get fined HUGE.........like taking 90% of that 2% that people are complaining about.

I also put forth the notion of rewriting the Bankruptcy laws that have raped ALPA's and other Union's ability to bargain effectively.

Breaking the Law is just that -- and you call yourself an evil "genius" :)
Click to expand...

The Law? How do you work the law? PACs.

Yup... if you want this career to be better you need to pay attention to the palyground; CapHill. Want to be a player at the play ground or just a spectator? As a spectator you can watch the players kick and pass your career around...as you do nothing but watch...

Or you can play. Gotta pay to play. ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC.

I didn't make the rules, I am just pointing out how the game is played. You can be pissed off at ALPA and leave it at that.. or you can realize that there is an entire culture and methodology of how our careers are managed....that is way bigger than ALPA.....

Regardless, the choice is yours....
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Do you think the ALPA guys are getting fat on high dollar steak dinners? Well, what do you want your dues to go towards, reimbursing him/her for each hour that he volunteers times his hourly rate of a $30 steak dinner. I can tell you the steak dinner is a great deal.....
Click to expand...
boo hoo! don't feel too sorry for them. They get paid their full pay (based on the highest block they would be able to hold) in addition to the $30 steak dinner.
 
CopilotDoug said:
If asking for more money and a better schedule for myself and my fellow pilots is a "welfare" mentality...I'd like to know your version of a "Generous" mentality. Doesn't everyone look up to the FedEx contract because of it's great commuter clause in the contract? <----Sarcasm...for the lack wits
Click to expand...

You can ask all you want. Who is going to do it? They guy that is getting the "look" from his wife as he volunteers another day away from family?

If ALPA were all volunteers, that's one thing. But the minute you take my money, yeah, I'm going to be bitter when the MEC suggests the pilot group take a paycut and National doesn't say one word in opposition.
Click to expand...

IF? ALPA/UNIONS IS ALL VOUNTEER!!!!!


From those who have come before me, I have been told that ALPA has grown very weak.
Click to expand...

A major misconception. Everyone thinks that UAL2000 and DAL2001 happen all the time. The UAL guys went thru alot of crap. Historically, times have been more worse than good for pilots. But most pilots romatically remember the good days.. and squarely make it ALPA's responsibility to make it so.. one phone call and ALPA can make life grand..but they don't make that call and so ALPA sucks....

Of course everyone thinks thier career should go good and always get better... but that ain't gonna happen and it isn't ALPA's fault to creat a false environment for you...

As for those pilots who are constantly having "non-event" incidents requiring ALPA to bail them out...maybe these pilots should go back to Gulfstream Academy and get their money back.
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Typical self righteous mentaility.... I'll post Frake's article from FedEx. A righeous dude like you that was far from the lowest common denominator... yet he found him self fired...

Consider the stupid guys your buffer zone. If they fire them then the next level of stupid is fair game... then they get fired. How smart you are depends on how quick they get to you.....
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
The Law? How do you work the law? PACs.

Yup... if you want this career to be better you need to pay attention to the palyground; CapHill. Want to be a player at the play ground or just a spectator? As a spectator you can watch the players kick and pass your career around...as you do nothing but watch...

Or you can play. Gotta pay to play. ALPA-PAC or CAPA-PAC.

I didn't make the rules, I am just pointing out how the game is played. You can be pissed off at ALPA and leave it at that.. or you can realize that there is an entire culture and methodology of how our careers are managed....that is way bigger than ALPA.....

Regardless, the choice is yours....
Click to expand...

Let's just clear one thing up Rez.........I am and always will be ALPA. I was TSA MEC and the first line of that post was taken out of context - I was educating the lad on how things work at National and Capital Hill with a little RLA thrown in........

Carry on.......
 
ohplease! said:
boo hoo! don't feel too sorry for them. They get paid their full pay (based on the highest block they would be able to hold) in addition to the $30 steak dinner.
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WRONG!

If you need to be schooled then hit "quote"
 
Shrek said:
Let's just clear one thing up Rez.........I am and always will be ALPA. I was TSA MEC and the first line of that post was taken out of context - I was educating the lad on how things work at National and Capital Hill with a little RLA thrown in........

Carry on.......
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I could've been more clear....
I was replying to the guy you replied to.... :):beer:
 
ohplease! said:
whatever crackhead.
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Rez I think he is one of those RJDC guys. Poor soul...... The reason I think so is that he is an ASA guy. Those guys had it good because of their dedication to ALPA and now they are fighting to keep it. ASA is a good company because of ALPAs leadership and their pilot unity. Delta guys see it too thats why they are pref. hiring them. They agreed to help fellow ALPA pilots out in need. Skywest is going to love flying 70+ seat jets for 50 seat pay, at least ASA has a say.
 
So Rez why should pilots that already pay 2% of their paycheck have to pay one cent more to get things done in Wash D.C? I can see them not being able to support candidates with union dues money. Having to donate money just to get your voice heard when that is ALPAs job in the first place? Thats f'in retarded. Why the %(#)( should pilots have to keep forking over money? You guys wonder why ALPA will never get voted in at SkyWest. I am the true voice of the SkyWest pilots. We all know that ALPA just wants our money and nothing more. Why else would they be doing this full court press to sucker us into voting them in? BTW a union in todays world is useless. Deregulation is in full swing, the economy drives the market now not the unions. Personally I think it is fantastic that pilots haven't been allowed the right to strike in quite some time.
 
HelloNewman said:
Personally I think it is fantastic that pilots haven't been allowed the right to strike in quite some time.
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Alright Senator McCain. Without our ability to strike the Lorenzos and Ornstiens of the world would be in heaven. I take it you are not a pilot. If you are then I would think that you know nothing about bargaining leverage. Do we always use our ability to strike. Mostly not. Is it there if we have no other choice. Yes it is. Thank God and I will fight to protect that right. I think people like you just like to stir the pot.
 
Skywest? 50 seat pay for 70+ pax jets. I hope they dont set the industry standard. Remember what the 70+ pax jets at the majors were paying less than a decade ago. Thanks for helping set the new bar. You RJDC freaks.
 

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