ALPA Age 65 Vote

[Purpledog]

I'm taking my dues money and going home! ALPA can kiss my A**. Money talks, BS walks.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm taking my dues money and going home! ALPA can kiss my A**. Money talks, BS walks.

Feel better... ? now get back onto your LEC meeting and particapte in democracy....

 

[Purpledog]

now get back onto your LEC meeting and particapte in democracy....05-09-2007 19:05

government by the people; especially : rule of the majority

The definition from Webster's doesn't match what we have. Autocracy perhaps, but definitely not a democracy. I have participated, PAC, meetings, numerous polls trying to change the same outcome, all to no avail. Not one more cent to PAC. Dues are the only thing that will open up ears.

 

[PCL_128]

Feel better... ? now get back onto your LEC meeting and particapte in democracy....

But that's the very problem, Rez. The members have participated in democracy by voting in this poll, but Prater and the EC have snubbed them and done their own thing. The senior leadership tells people to get involved, but then ignores the will of the members when they do. This is not how we encourage participation.

 

[Freight Dog]

Wow PCL... are you finally starting to see the light?

 

[PCL_128]

Wow PCL... are you finally starting to see the light?

Certainly not the way you see it. The problem we have is Prater, not ALPA in general. Your disdain for ALPA is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is your hatred for Duane, when Duane was our biggest advocate for keeping the Age-60 policy!!! Prater won a very narrow victory in this election, and he's responded by acting like he has some sort of madate to change policy and do whatever he feels is appropriate for ALPA, the membership be d@mned.

I miss Duane.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

But that's the very problem, Rez. The members have participated in democracy by voting in this poll, but Prater and the EC have snubbed them and done their own thing. The senior leadership tells people to get involved, but then ignores the will of the members when they do. This is not how we encourage participation.

I spoke with an EVP the other day..... he was for Age 60 but understood the pragmatism of the issue. Hence the vote...

Can you understand and explain why, not just Prater, but the EC too has gone in the same direction.....

 

[Freight Dog]

PCL... remember this post?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1272714&postcount=64

Look at the date on it...

Good to see you're finally starting to see through that ALPA cataract.

 

[Falconjet]

I spoke with an EVP the other day..... he was for Age 60 but understood the pragmatism of the issue. Hence the vote...

Can you understand and explain why, not just Prater, but the EC too has gone in the same direction.....

Because it is the direction they PERSONALLY wanted to go all along. They didn't even really try to hide it and the old, senior MEC members agreed with them, their constituents be damned. They have been undermining the resistance to change under the table and now they want to come out from under the table cloth, wipe their mouths and ask us to help them stab us in the back.

You can't possibly be this dense.

FJ

 

[Freight Dog]

I spoke with an EVP the other day..... he was for Age 60 but understood the pragmatism of the issue. Hence the vote...

Can you understand and explain why, not just Prater, but the EC too has gone in the same direction.....

Because they are a bunch of old bastards with an agenda?

Because they willfully disregarded the will of its membership?

 

[PCL_128]

I spoke with an EVP the other day..... he was for Age 60 but understood the pragmatism of the issue. Hence the vote...

No, hence the elitism. He has basically said "I know we've thoroughly educated the members on this issue, and I know that the majority wants to keep the current policy, but I know what's best for them better than they do." If I ever start to behave that way in office, then I hope someone recalls me.

Can you understand and explain why, not just Prater, but the EC too has gone in the same direction.....

Because Prater has managed to convince them that we can't be involved in the rule-making process if we keep the current policy. This is, of course, absurd, but Prater can be very convincing on this issue. This seems to be the one issue that Prater has any real passion for at this point.

I think you'll find that the EB vote comes down much differently. It will probably still pass, but there will be a large number of NO votes. The EB already received Prater's briefing on this issue earlier this week, and many of them are still planning on voting NO. It's a shame that members of the EC were so easily swayed.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL... remember this post?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=1272714&postcount=64

Look at the date on it...

Good to see you're finally starting to see through that ALPA cataract.

I remember the post, and I stand by everything in it.

1. I do still believe that Prater is doing what he thinks is best. I vehemently disagree with him, and I disagree with the idea of ignoring the will of a well-educated membership, but there's no doubt in my mind that Prater truly believes that what he's doing is best for the Association.

2. I still agree with Prater's decision to be involved in the rule-making process even though the Association officially opposes a change. I also still agree with creating the BRP to study the effects of a rule change.

3. I still believe the rule will change no matter what we do. That doesn't mean that we should change our policy and our strategy, but pretending that you can stop this change is ridiculous.

4. I still support the PAC 100%.

So, as you can see, I completely stand by my earlier posts on this subject. The only thing that's changed is the EC's vote, and I am very disappointed in that. I still hold some hope that the EB will do the right thing. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

 

[Andy]

Certainly not the way you see it. The problem we have is Prater, not ALPA in general. Your disdain for ALPA is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is your hatred for Duane, when Duane was our biggest advocate for keeping the Age-60 policy!!! Prater won a very narrow victory in this election, and he's responded by acting like he has some sort of madate to change policy and do whatever he feels is appropriate for ALPA, the membership be d@mned.

I miss Duane.

WOW! I thought that I was the only one who missed Duane. Say what you want about the guy, he followed the will of the membership, even if he personally disagreed on the issue. I've seen statements that Duane wanted to change age 60, but ALWAYS strongly opposed any change when he spoke in public.
And that's where prater has done severe damage - he has publically spoken in favor of a change. I cannot support prater.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Complain, complain, complain...yet...not one LEC/MEC has been recalled over this. It all starts at home, boys

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because it is the direction they PERSONALLY wanted to go all along. They didn't even really try to hide it and the old, senior MEC members agreed with them, their constituents be damned. They have been undermining the resistance to change under the table and now they want to come out from under the table cloth, wipe their mouths and ask us to help them stab us in the back.



FJ

That is not how I understood the conversation. Which was.......... the EVP was personally against it. But when the gov't affairs folks briefed them on the reality of the situation he understood the dynamics of it.

You can't possibly be this dense.

I have yet to address you personally. If I have my apologies...

I am not the one going against the grain here. Recall, I am not for or against Age60. I believe while everyone is focusing on Age60, Open Skies is going to ambush us all and severly limit our jobs making it "not worth it". If I am dense, then so is the ALPA leadership, who, have been working this issue constantly. I really don't think the membership has had its finger on the Age60 pulse for as long as and often as staffers and elected reps... They certainly aren't getting the detailed briefings... but that is why you have elected reps. Should the avg citizen get to see a NSA briefing that his congressmen sees?