ALPA 401k vote.

[PCL_128]

This one is different....with the Age 65...you had the members of the BOD voting to go along with the change.

Here you have the members of the BOD saying...."No way" !!!

Good for them

Actually, the BOD never had a say in the Age 65 policy change. Prater got it forced through with only votes from the EC and EB. I question whether it would have passed a full BOD vote.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It failed by 55% to 45%. 66.6% was required for it to pass. In other words, not even close. The BOD did the right thing.

The BOD did do the right thing... for the wrong reason...

appeasing the membership base for their disconnect is part of politics...

the logic for putting everyone one on the same fair dues rate was sound...

lots of temper tantrums for something going ones way....

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

21281 For
17019 Against

6451 Didn't Vote

Nice job MECs!

Here's how your's voted:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=750354&da=y

 

[Ben Franklin]

appeasing the membership base...

Isn't that the job of an ALPA "REPRESENTATIVE"?

last I was sold.. er, I mean told, ALPA line pilots direct the union.

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[imacdog]

the logic for putting everyone one on the same fair dues rate was sound...

Apparently not, according to how the vote went.

 

[PCL_128]

The BOD did do the right thing... for the wrong reason...

appeasing the membership base for their disconnect is part of politics...

I disagree completely. When the will of the membership is known, a rep should vote as his membership is directing him. That's his job. This attitude of "I know what's best for you" from some reps needs to stop.

I was also very impressed that most of the UAL reps and a few of the NWA reps voted against this. Good job to the BOD.

 

[Beetle007]

A rep should vote as his membership is directing him. That's his job. This attitude of "I know what's best for you" from some reps needs to stop.

I completely disagree. We elect representatives to make choices for us. We should never make the choices ourselves, and I cringe when I hear people who think the "majority" should rule. Remember that America is not a democracy.

"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
- Thomas Jefferson

“Democracy: A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any form of ‘direct' expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards laws is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.”
- 1928 Army training manual

Our founding fathers hated democracy and formed a Republic!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I disagree completely. When the will of the membership is known, a rep should vote as his membership is directing him. That's his job. This attitude of "I know what's best for you" from some reps needs to stop. .

The will of the membership? Even if it is self destructive?

Problem is... just like the average citizen during the revolution of America, the avg. ALPA member isn't informed and operates on pure self interests.

The logic for rejecting the 401k dues vote was more akin to Twisted Sisters #1 smash hit, then pragmatic application....

 

[PCL_128]

The will of the membership? Even if it is self destructive?

Who is to decide what is self-destructive? Prater? I consider him to be completely incompetent and unfit for his position, so no, he should not be ignoring the will of the majority, as they are much smarter than he.

But let's talk about what's self-destructive here. Based on what I've been hearing, if this had passed, a full-scale decertification drive would have taken place at ASA and possibly other B-carriers. How many more pilot groups do you want to lose? And let's consider the chilling effect that this would have on future organizing efforts. Word would spread that ALPA "screwed over" the little guys and you wouldn't organize a regional carrier for the next decade. Sorry, but this was just a really bad idea, and approving it would have been the self-destructive move. Listening to the will of the membership was the smart move. There's much to be said for the wisdom of the majority.

Problem is... just like the average citizen during the revolution of America, the avg. ALPA member isn't informed and operates on pure self interests.

The mob mentality and emotional reactions of the citizens in this country during the revolution and the events that lead up to it are what created this nation. The same could be said of the French Revolution. Do you consider that a bad thing?

 

[JoeMerchant]

The will of the membership? Even if it is self destructive?

Problem is... just like the average citizen during the revolution of America, the avg. ALPA member isn't informed and operates on pure self interests.

This is too good.....Aren't you the champion of "democracy"? Sounds like you don't like "democracy" when it doesn't go your way.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The BOD did do the right thing... for the wrong reason...

appeasing the membership base for their disconnect is part of politics...

the logic for putting everyone one on the same fair dues rate was sound...

lots of temper tantrums for something going ones way....

Let me get this straight....You think that "democracy" didn't work here. You also seem to be implying that the decertification threats worked and that the vote was influenced by those who threatened to leave ALPA.....Hmmm....I guess the system does work after all......:beer:

 

[JoeMerchant]

Why did the Mesaba reps vote YES? Does Wychor still have an influence?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Boys.... read my first sentence... the BOD made the right choice .....for the wrong reason..... If one cares to do so... read any post I made on the 401k vote and it is clear that I have supported the membership on this issue...

The question now is.... with less operating funds, the satiated membership will expect ALPA to do more with less... and of course when ALPA does not because it has a big gaping AAAhole in its budget... the ALPA haters will jig with glee at its ineffectiveness....

Anyone tempted to hit reply to this post: the debate is over the reasoning and logic to deny funding..

First... what is the reasoning for ALPA to align the dues formula? Fairness for all and most importantly recover some lost funds from AAA. Also note that this process has been in the works for years.. it is not a knee jerk reaction to the AAA gaffe. But AAA is a valid point...

Second.....what is the reasoning for the membership to reject the 401k dues? Emotional satisfaction. Members feel that they are not getting value for their dues money.. so why give more? There maybe some truth to that however, most members function on self interests and treat ALPA as service business with paradigms of 100% guarantees and the customer is always right.... straight from the shopping mall.

But the fact remains that ALPA will not be able to provide as good as it could due to the loss of the 401k vote...

So while the members get to feel good 'cause they stuck it to the man' they themsleves are going to get stuck with decreased career protections... which of course they'll write off anyway cause the avg self interest based member feels that ALPA doesn't do jack anyway... which gets back to the whole arguement of perceptions....

Facts is...any organization needs funds.... the more funds the better.... if one desn't like how the funds are being used in a democratic group... they know what they can do... get on FI and b!tch.....

Again.. the BOD played politics and chose the lesser of the two evils... emotion based backlash or a fair method of dues collection...

Democracy worked just fine girls.....

 

[Raskal]

Maybe I'm in the minority (certainly wouldn't be the first time) but I understand the need for more funds but the thought of accomplishing monetary goals with the 401k doesn't work for me. Honestly, I would vote for a straight-up dues increase if that's what is truly needed, but I was never asked (and my MEC liked the 401k thing anyway).

 

[PCL_128]

Why did the Mesaba reps vote YES? Does Wychor still have an influence?

That really surprised me. I'm sure Tom still has some influence, but his MEC was always independent minded and had no problems disagreeing with him when they felt necessary. I disagree with their votes, but I'm sure they voted their conscience.