Aloha's Big Announcement!!!

[Hugh Jorgan]

How about homebrewing and LBFMs?

 

[islandhopper]

How about homebrewing and LBFMs?

Whats a LBFM? OK here we go.. ATTENTION; this thread is now being JACKED!!

 

[enigma]

Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm gonna say EZ NO

... Has anybody seen EVEN ONE southwest executive out here checking out our ops or even in a closed meeting with our execs?

Don't make that assumption. I spent years in corporate ops and can assure you that your execs could have met with SWA people every day and you'd never know it. Unless you can somehow track every one of your execs and every one of SWA's execs and every one of the lawyers/consultants that either company can hire; you will never be able to determine if meetings happen. I worked for a big time sports team owner who was trying to sell his team without the press finding out about it. They never found out who he was talking to, and they were diligently attempting to track our movements. The storys they ended up printing were wrong by at least a thousand miles.

regards,
enigma

 

[islandhopper]

Re: Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm gonna s

I spent years in corporate ops

I worked for a big time sports team owner

regards,
enigma

What else did you do? Your kind of logic is what keeps rumors alive. Black helicopters Catcher in the rye balderdash. The other side of the coin is not one scrap of hard evidence and WN could start Hawaii ops on their own they dont need to buy an entire airline to do that.

 

[AQ PILOT]

Re-jacking the thread

Actually, from what I hear, getting an ETOPS cert is REALLY expensive. And I mean REEEEAAALLLLYYYY expensive. That is the only reason I can see WN buyin' us. Then they can just get ETOPS out of the box -700's from Boeing and aaawwaaayyy they go.

Still aint gonna happen. Hey islandhopper...you must be flyin' the -200 or somethin', I have so much free time on my hands, I NEED the rumor mill to keep me sane!

Here's one for ya. Was at a party last night and talked to one of our managers in maintenance. He told me our YVRs are going back to 3 day trips in January. Verbatim. Problem is, we already got our skeds and there just aint no 3 day YVRs on there...My point? Even someone in the know may not really have a clue as to what is really going on.

Man this reply sucks. I'm going to the beach...

 

[Dopps]

On Dopps' side, I agree that there is a bit of stereotyping here. I don't want to go so far as to call is 'discrimination', but there is some sort of a stigma...hence the use of 'haole' all the time. I still don't fit in 100% of the time, but then again I never have anywhere ;-)

Why do you have to fit in? This is America, Jack. Stars and Stripes. The melting pot of the world. Shouldn't we preach tolerance and respect towards other cultures? Shouldn't we come to expect the same in return? Funny thing, one can be a great admirer of Hawaiian culture, but still not have to fit in - just show respect. The difference is that some people here are too ignorant to realize or accept the fact that this is America, not the Socialist Republic of Hawai'i.

I did hear an interesting rumor the other day from a couple of HAL guys. They said that our Union MEC had already been approached by the company for possibly opening a mainland base. How they knew, I have no idea, but that rumor does run around pretty heavily from time to time.....so, Dopps, you may be in luck!

HAL guys, huh? That's pretty funny.


jjp writes:

If you'd rather be based in OAK or PHX why on earth would you accept a job with Aloha?

The same reason you'd be applying to JetBlue, SWA and whoever else was hiring if Aloha dropped off the face of the planet. Please don't tell me you'd be a towel boy at Royal Hawaiian.

Last week I had a Captain who commuted in the same day, slept for two hours during the flight back to the mainland, and then bumped the speed up to a cost index of 500 on the flight back in hopes of making an earlier flight back to the mainland. We landed 1,600 pounds under projections. That's my 10%.

Did you speak up about it, or did you yes-sir him the whole way? If you spoke against it, outstanding! Or did you lack the cojones to speak up and now you talk about him behind his back? I am not condoning what the captain did. I am just questioning if you are one of those "not cause any waves to his face, i'll just stab him in the back" kind.

Last month I watched in disgust as a guy a class junior to me argued with an OAK gate agent about the fact that he was a commuter and shouldn't be bumped by someone junior to him even though the other person was on a vacation pass. He told the agent, "Well, you've just caused a flight to be cancelled this afternoon." I hope word got back to flight ops.

Was the jumpseat taken? Also, why do you hope the word got back to the flight ops? Are you a back-stabber? I hope you are not and I truly hope it didn't get to flight ops. On the other hand, I hope someone from our UNION pulled the idiot to the side and set him straight. Better yet, you were there. Why didn't you do it? Every pilot group has their share of idiots, including ours. It's up to us to keep each other straight, not run to flight ops.

I don't have anything against commuters, but I do have something against idiots.

If you really meant that, you wouldn't hope someone being an idiot got back to the flight ops. You'd hope that a fellow Aloha pilot would set him straight, or perhaps you, or does this fall in the category of one of those "not causing waves brah, just stab him in the back."

I don't know if you're one of them, but I can assure you that if you're being treated like a second class citizen, you probably bring it on yourself. And this is from someone who married a mainland haole girl.

I could care less about me. But when my kids come home crying because the 'local' kids at the waterpark were harrassing them "go back to the mainland, haole... this is my raft", I'd call that second-class citizen treatment. I just hope you and your kids when you have them don't have to experience that.

Sorry Dopps. I don't care if you have your mainland base as long as I can stay here and collect my retirement.

You and I both, buddy. Let's hope you don't have to make that choice.

 

[Freight Dog]

Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm gonna say EZ NO

No one saw the Willis people around here either. Everyone was blindsided by the announcement of selling Island Air. No one heard a peep about it, and apparently the deal has been in the works for 6 months. Goes to show you... if the company wants to keep a secret, they will.

One thing we must realize about this mother of all rumors is first off... Has anybody seen EVEN ONE southwest executive out here checking out our ops or even in a closed meeting with our execs?

I really dont think anybody would buy an airline "sight-unseen!" They wouldnt even begin a CODESHARE with us without giving our entire operation some kind of white glove test.

The last "airline" I worked at (i use that term lightly) began a codeshare agreement with United. EVERYBODY knew it was in the works because numerous employees WITNESSED the UAL execs entering and leaving our building. It was NO SECRET. 3 or 4 months later it happened, it was true.

The WN/AQ things smells like BS through and through. I dont see one scrap of evidence. Just posts on these internet BB's do not convince me. I first heard a version of this rumor three years ago, it died, the latest version I heard a few months ago, then it died, now It is becoming a full on urban legend, back from the dead once again. Once we think its dead a new group of people find out about it and raise it from the dead. C'mon guys.

I think everytime we get a box jellyfish warning on Oahu the rumors start to fly. Thats the only explanantion. Get another hobby besides surfing!

 

[islandhopper]

Re: Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm gonna s

No one saw the Willis people around here either. Everyone was blindsided by the announcement of selling Island Air. No one heard a peep about it, and apparently the deal has been in the works for 6 months. Goes to show you... if the company wants to keep a secret, they will.

OK maybe... Most if not all AQ pilots wouldnt recognize a willis employee if we sat next to one in first class. But the gap between rumor and fact is still deep and wide here. The logic I was making a counter point to is what fuels rumors and stories to the level of urban legend.

Where is the info coming from? Has there been a peep written about any of this in any publication no matter how obscure? When we heard AQ was getting embrears there were articles written in industry publications revealing this info. It was a credible rumor.

Where is the WN rumor coming from? Bottom of the pyramid info chain. I reject this kind of rumor. The source has no credibility. Give me just one scrap of hard evidence and i'll change my tune.

"i used to work for a company and they did this" does not equal "wn is buying AQ" not matter how slick the presentation.

Of course "it could be true" proving a negative in nearly impossible. This is what makes urban legends so popular.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm gonna s

OK maybe... Most if not all AQ pilots wouldnt recognize a willis employee if we sat next to one in first class. .

...And who at WN would you recognize other than Herb? Freight Dog has a valid point, although I still view a WN purchase of AQ a very un-Herb-like manuever.

I concur with your philosophy on rumors in general, but my gut tells me there's more change afoot. WP scope-dance is just the small move in the story. Of course, that's what my gut is telling me after a large Zippy's chili-rice bowl... uh-oh, better hele on to da lua!

 

[HAL]

Ease and speed of entry, "out of the box" ETOPS solution, and local goodwill.

The ETOPS solution is the big one. ETOPS isn't so much about aircraft or training as it is about the maintenance and spare parts chain. No offense to HAL, but they're still operating under AA's maintenance program.

When AQ started the -700 service, they already had nearly two decades of ETOPS experience. With the -700, they only had to add the engines to the certificate.

WN would have to do six months of proving runs on the mainland before even applying for an initial ETOPS certificate.

Sorry jjp, but wrong, wrong, wrong.

1) HAL is NOT operating under AA's maintenance program. We gave that up with the DC-10's and they of course were not part of ETOPS. Our maintenance is OUR OWN maintenance, aided by Delta's facilities on the mainland and some of their own personnel. Ever seen our maintenance facility in HNL? 767's in and out of there every day.

2) NO, you do not have to do six months of proving runs to get ETOPS any more. From the time our first 767 was delivered until our first passenger flight was less than TWO months. ETOPS is a proven thing, and unlike when they were first trying it across the Atlantic, it doesn't take a lot of time (once the paperwork is in order) to get it done.

Nice try, but I stick to my original statement that Southwest would not get anything worthwhile if they bought Aloha. If WN does buy AQ, feel free to gloat.

HAL

 

[islandhopper]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Twice in one day I'm

...And who at WN would you recognize other than Herb? Freight Dog has a valid point, although I still view a WN purchase of AQ a very un-Herb-like manuever.

I concur with your philosophy on rumors in general, but my gut tells me there's more change afoot. WP scope-dance is just the small move in the story. Of course, that's what my gut is telling me after a large Zippy's chili-rice bowl... uh-oh, better hele on to da lua!

I know quite a few WN pilots (even two locals from Hawaii) but thats besides the point.. I actually anticipated that question let me just say we as airline employees can pick things up from people. Bag tags, ticket stock, cowboy boots, golf shirts there are many tells but of all our 3000 employees we have not had one single encounter except a random WN jumpseater here and there with the "looks like were buying you guys" rehash rumor and nothing more.

Your gut is right in line with everybody elses gut about changes afoot but... I would be careful to call this a "scope-dance" it could very well be something else. Any other airline this would stink to high heaven but I believe that there is still room to give AQ mgmt the benefit of the doubt. Our MEC has a dog in this fight, theres no reason to think they will lose control.

 

[jjp]

Sorry jjp, but wrong, wrong, wrong.

1) HAL is NOT operating under AA's maintenance program. We gave that up with the DC-10's and they of course were not part of ETOPS. Our maintenance is OUR OWN maintenance, aided by Delta's facilities on the mainland and some of their own personnel. Ever seen our maintenance facility in HNL? 767's in and out of there every day.

2) NO, you do not have to do six months of proving runs to get ETOPS any more. From the time our first 767 was delivered until our first passenger flight was less than TWO months. ETOPS is a proven thing, and unlike when they were first trying it across the Atlantic, it doesn't take a lot of time (once the paperwork is in order) to get it done.

Nice try, but I stick to my original statement that Southwest would not get anything worthwhile if they bought Aloha. If WN does buy AQ, feel free to gloat.

HAL

Sorry there guy. My brother in law is a mechanic for you and I just got off the phone with him and verified this.

HAL is about 80% through the transition on this. Delta is doing some maintenance, but you're still using A/A's chain of supply certification.

Since you won't believe me, check your Ops Specs. He says this is part of the problem with the break downs in the south pac.

There is a significant difference between having an aircraft certified, and having an airline certified. Boeing arranged for you to have an out of the box solution via AA. Then you had some problem with some german planes or something that caused a hassle (since resolved). You're carriers full ETOPS authority isn't expected until the 2'nd quarter of 2005.

BTW, I wouldn't be gloating if WN buys us. I'd be very disappoiinted. That's probably the wrong attitude considering the state of the industry. I phoned an AQ ALPA negotiator today (who is very outspoken but well respected) and he said there is absolutly nothing verifiable to this rumor. He didn't discount that he thinks something is up (the sale of WP was more than a way around our scope) but he said no one in ALPA knows if, what, or when.

He also said that something very big almost happend in August but that it got torpedoed in final negotiations at the corporate level and that anything going down now is probably Plan B. he wouldn't say what happend in August but I think he knew.

Those guys have a tough job to do and probably have a hard time keeping their mouths shut.

 

[jjp]

I should be clear on this.

You are performing your own maintenance but you are using AA's Op Specs.

 

[Sleepyhead]

RE: WN buying AQ

I tend to agree with Hugh, selling WP was just Phase One of the master plan, whatever it may be.

As to WN buying AQ "not being Herb like",
well Herb ain't running WN any more.

I talked to a WN pilot, he said they have big expansion plans set for 2004-5. Already announced the plan to hire 400 pilots in 04, however they don'y know what cities they are expanding to.
--insert you own theory here--

As to keeping corp secrets:
From the lips of WP CEO and A. Willis, "the deal was in the works for a least 6 months". And only one person at WP knew anything about it, The CEO. Since people at AQ had to be in on the deal, and no word leaked over there, it shows they can keep their plans very quiet for a long time.
So my conclusion, wait for the other shoe to drop.

 

[English]

How likely or unlikely would it be that Aloha is buying or again attempting a merger with Hawaiian? It seems selling Island Air could have been a preemptive move to avoid a monopoly of the interisland routes once Aloha and Hawaiian became one. Just a thought from an outsider....