Aloha Airlines Sues Mesa Air Group

[Freight Dog]

Soverytired, here is one question to ask yourself:

What would JO do if Aloha and Hawaiian stopped flying interisland or severely
reduced capacity interisland as unprofitable?

Do you think JO would just bring more planes and fly them at $19 or $29 or even $39 for that matter out of goodness of his heart?

You don't have to go far to see what would happen. Right on Mesa's website, you can look at ABQ to FMN. This is a 148 mile trip. Roughly comparable to HNL-OGG market. This is an EAS subsidized route as well. Mesa charges $191.50 for round trip with advance purchase. Are we to believe that JO cares more about the people of Hawaii than the people of New Mexico?

Now... here's another thing. He never actually mentioned the INTRO fare of $39 or $19. According to go's website, $39 fares are here indefinitely. We all know he's not making money *OR* breaking even. Well, that's predatory pricing, and it's illegal.

As for Aloha's mainland ops, we're actually making money on it again, but interisland is sagging because of go. We'll see....

 

[Soverytired]

Soverytired, here is one question to ask yourself:

What would JO do if Aloha and Hawaiian stopped flying interisland or severely
reduced capacity interisland as unprofitable?

Do you think JO would just bring more planes and fly them at $19 or $29 or even $39 for that matter out of goodness of his heart?

....

JO would immediately rape the inter-island market. No question about it. Fact is, he just wants to supplant A & H and do what they've been doing to islanders for decades.

That's what every carrier does (just with more class and better marketing). I just can't get excited because "Corporation X" wants to do the same thing that "Corporation Y and Z" have been doing all along.

Take Southwest . . . everyone "knows" they're a "cheap" airline . . . but that's really B.S. PHX-PHL is a heck of alot cheaper on USAir than Southwest, for example. PHX-ABQ used to be cheap, but now that they've beaten USAir back (reduced their trips significantly over the years), cost has been creeping up and up.

I suppose the only "solution" for the consumer is to have as many cutthroat competitors in the market as possible . . . keeps the costs down. Be honest . . A & H haven't really competed with each other for a very long time. Kind of a "gentlemens agreement" to screw the little guy. Now JO wants to do the same and everyone is all va-clemped.

 

[mdanno808]

You simply don't know what you are talking about. Interisland has been a shrinking market for a while now, and had been until the last few years, an unprofitable market for HAL (don't know about AQ). In and around the time HAL got the 717's, the fares were crept up to a profitable level (70-90 bucks per ticket average). Just because JO is telling the press that HAL and AQ have been in bed together scewing the Hawaiian public does not make it true.

 

[Freight Dog]

Actually Soverytired, you really don't know much about interisland market. Prior to 9/11 and HAL/AQ merger attempt, both of us had a coupon system. Basically, you'd buy coupons for dirt cheap, and you'd be able to go on any flight, any time of the day. You just showed up. That was a pretty crummy deal for both carriers and both were bleeding big time. Far cry from screwing the little guy like JO would have you believe. However, unlike the popular belief, neither us nor Hawaiian are subsidized by the state for providing interisland transportation.

It wasn't until after 9/11 and AQ/HAL attempted merger that the coupons went away, and the interisland market got introduced to yield management. Prices went up some, but it's a far cry from Mesa's gouging. For example, ABQ-FMN on Mesa with 14 day advanced purchase is $191.50. That's an EAS subsidized route too, isn't it? 148 miles. That's the same distance as HNL-OGG. Who gouges whom?

JO is a vulture manipulator. Don't fall for his lies.

 

[Soverytired]

JO is a vulture manipulator. Don't fall for his lies.

Hah! Well, there's something I think we can all agree wholeheartedly on!

Too bad your merger attempt fell though, by the way. Probably would've put you both in a better position to swat flies away.

BTW, I don't think anyone flying the line on the mainland seriously expects Mesa to last in the islands more than a few months. Certainly, nobody here cares one way or the other.

 

[islandhopper]

Certainly, nobody here cares one way or the other.

Bullsh!t soverytired

 

[Soverytired]

Bullsh!t soverytired

6 months ago, you might have been right. The abuse around this lovely airline is so out of hand nobody cares about anything other than doing the absolute bare minimum required to complete our contractual duties and get that paycheck.

For example: The rumor is that Mesa has purportedly traded in its 40 options for the CRJ900 in exchange for being the launch customer for the CRJ-900X. . . a s-t-r-e-c-h-e-d CRJ 9 with 100 seats. Universally, the only thing I've ever heard from MAG pilot is groans . . . not cheers. Pilots here just want to be treated like human beings . . . wild expansion plans and crazy new aircraft are things nobody gives a shizit about.

Now, I can guarantee you the only pilot who care about go! are the few guys flying out there.

 

[skydivinguy]

My A&P friend that works at Go! tells me the planes are junk and the mechanics don't give a ******************** about the airline either. Looks like more trouble in paradise!

 

[islandhopper]

Now, I can guarantee you the only pilot who care about go! are the few guys flying out there.

You and I both know everybody is watching what happens in Hawaii with go! They may not "care" in a personal "how will it effect me" way but that will change if the US Attorney General begins to notice this case.

JO's head must spin around every day Aloha stays in business, wins a poll, has a favorable story in the press, or gets supportive comments from industry insiders such as Scott Hamilton or Raymond Neidl.

Notice nobody is complementing JO on a job well done in Hawaii. Its all about if he can put Aloha out of business. There is no other way he can win. He is still losing money and will not raise prices and risk losing his precious +/- 60% load facotrs.

 

[islandhopper]

Add Holly Hegeman to the list...

She says here she thinks the Aloha lawsuit "is a done deal"

 

[Z_Pilot]

Now, I can guarantee you the only pilot who care about go! are the few guys flying out there.

Umm...no, we don't care anymore.

Z

 

[Soverytired]

Add Holly Hegeman to the list...

She says here she thinks the Aloha lawsuit "is a done deal"

Holly Hegeman? Wasn't she involved in some sort lawsuit with Mesa? I think JO sued her when she wrote a couple of less-than-glowing reviews about "our dear leader".

I don't know the details (or care), but I think you can be pretty sure that she's not exactly unbiased after having to spend a bunch of cash on lawyers to defend herself . . . on what was probably a bunch of b.s., considering it was settled w/o any monetary damages being awarded.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2003-10-20-ornstein_x.htm

Jonathan is a piece of work," says Hegeman, who settled the lawsuit this summer without having to pay damages. The lawsuit, she says, "was a classic bullying tactic. He wouldn't have sued some big media organization for writing the same thing, but I'm a little guy, and he knew $50,000 in legal fees would be a lot of money."

Still, Hegeman says, Ornstein is "an excellent turnaround person. What's not proven, I think, is that he can both turn around a company and manage it for the long term, I don't think he's interested in day-to-day operations

(based on this sentence alone, I think she might actually know what she's talking about!)

 

[islandhopper]

Holly Hegeman? Wasn't she involved in some sort lawsuit with Mesa?

Yes, she hates JO, big newsflash there! Even more interesting is the quote from Scott Hamilton. He has known David Banmiller from his days at Pan Am and Scott has never liked Banmiller at all. Not sure why but they had serious issues. So for Scott to say this,...

"Based on what happened in the bankruptcy court ruling with Hawaiian Airlines, Ornstein should be on Banmiller's doorstep with a check asking what it would cost to make this go away."

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]SAYS A LOT.