Aloha Airlines Sues Mesa Air Group

[dooork]

Hey SuperScooter,

Have you ever heard of predatory pricing? It's considered anti-competitive and illegal in most countries, including the United States due to the antitrust laws.

...and every other airline out there does it.

 

[mdanno808]

No airline I have ever heard of has set price levels at an unsustainable level, and bragged about coping with the associated losses for 5 years. (Especially after unsuccessfully attempting to acquire the competition in Bankruptcy). On top of that, company emails have surfaced which show the true nature of MAG's hawaii venture (which indeed was to drive AQ out of the market and pick up their market share). So dork (aptly named) show me another example of one, or any of these. The airline market is highly competitive in America, yet I have not heard of Jetblue, or Airtran, or SWA, or UAL, (etc.) charging prices (other than introductory) which will not, and can not make them a profit.

 

[Traderd]

No airline I have ever heard of has set price levels at an unsustainable level, and bragged about coping with the associated losses for 5 years. (Especially after unsuccessfully attempting to acquire the competition in Bankruptcy). On top of that, company emails have surfaced which show the true nature of MAG's hawaii venture (which indeed was to drive AQ out of the market and pick up their market share). So dork (aptly named) show me another example of one, or any of these. The airline market is highly competitive in America, yet I have not heard of Jetblue, or Airtran, or SWA, or UAL, (etc.) charging prices (other than introductory) which will not, and can not make them a profit.

Are you serious? UAL, NWA and DAL didn't charge prices (other than introductory) that did not and could not make them a profit?

 

[Freight Dog]

Better hope Faris is more interested in this case than he was in HAL vs. go!

Faris shouldn't be presiding over this because this suit wasn't filed in the Bankruptcy Court.

 

[mdanno808]

Are you serious? UAL, NWA and DAL didn't charge prices (other than introductory) that did not and could not make them a profit?

Example? Mesa has admitted that at the current fare structure they can't make money. Show me where UAL, NWA, and DAL are losing money on routes while flying full.

The topper with this case is, they have emails from MAG executives admitting that the true plan was to drive one of the local companies out of business. This is a clear case of predatory pricing. I guess ultimately, it has to do with motive.

 

[dash8driver]

well, i guess we can scratch superkooter off the list of people who might have a clue as to the difference between a freemarket economy and what we have in the US. he's also off the list of people that might know what anti-trust laws are about.

 

[B1900 Mech]

What are you people smokin? http://www.lipmagazine.org/articles/featchomsky_63_p.htm

 

[OB-CPO]

Faris shouldn't be presiding over this because this suit wasn't filed in the Bankruptcy Court.

I just reviewed the lawsuit myself and it is very different from Hawaiian's lawsuit.

Looks like Mesa was sued by Aloha in State court (not bankruptcy court) so Aloha can pursue criminal penalties. I have just found the entire lawsuit on www.dontflygo.com the direct link to the lawsuit is http://www.dontflygo.com/documents/AQvYVComplaint.pdf

My sources say Aloha won't back down from this lawsuit for anything. Bethune and Burkle are going for JO's jugular.

If I was Ornstein I would find a excuse real quick to re-deploy those aircraft someplace else, anywhere else.

Didn't one of the BOD at Mesa resign just the day before this lawsuit was filed? I also hear that he was an Air Force General with old ties to Hawaii. He may have been tipped off about the criminal charges.

The way I understand it, the entire Mesa BOD and their management may be going to jail over this if Aloha wins which is all but assured.

Heres a cool quote from the Honolulu Advertiser on Saturday.

Scott Hamilton, a Washington state-based aviation industry consultant, estimated that go! would have to charge about $69 for each one-way interisland trip to break even. That's about 77 percent more than the $39 one-way fares currently charged by go! and more than three times the $19 lowest-ever fare offered by the airline.[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1] "Unless Mesa sells seats at $69, everything is below cost," he said.
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Hamilton added that Mesa faces major financial exposure if Aloha prevails in the suit.
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Aloha's suit did not specify the amount of monetary damages suffered by Aloha, but it did ask that it be awarded triple the amount should it prevail.


[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1] Hamilton cited a ruling by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Faris earlier this month in Hawaiian's suit against Mesa. Faris denied Hawaiian's request for a preliminary injunction barring go! from operating interisland flights for a year, but Hawaiian is still seeking damages from Mesa. The judge also said "the evidence (in the Hawaiian case) raises real doubts about the propriety of Mesa's conduct" and that "at one time, Mesa hoped to drive Aloha out of business."


[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1] Based on that ruling, Hamilton believes that Aloha could easily claim that it suffered $100 million in damages as a result of Mesa's actions. That means that Mesa could be on the hook for as much as $300 million should a judge rule in Aloha's favor and award treble damages, he said.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]"That wipes out much of the cash reserves of Mesa. ... In theory, this could put Mesa out of business," Hamilton said. "Based on what happened in the bankruptcy court ruling with Hawaiian Airlines, Ornstein should be on Banmiller's doorstep with a check asking what it would cost to make this go away."[/SIZE][/FONT]

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[/SIZE][/FONT]The funny thing about this quote is if you know Scott Hamilton, he doesn't like David Banmiller at all. That makes this quote EXTREMELY UNBIASED.
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[Dan Roman]

Faris shouldn't be presiding over this because this suit wasn't filed in the Bankruptcy Court.

Actually, I believe Hawaiian got exactly what they wanted out of this deal. It's my understanding that that they didn't expect to win this case, but they have paved the way to sue and win damages. Judging by the comments that the Judge made, it looks like it's not if they will get awarded damages in April, but how much. What Mesa did was illegal and now it's in the courts. Mesa may very well have met it's Waterloo in Hawaii.

 

[808pilot]

go get em' Aloha......and if it doesn't work just drag ornstein up to papakolea for a 'meet and greet'.....