Allegiant Post 3Q Profit!!!

[Ameriagle]

Let's address that point "I refuse to address."

Ameriagle, putting our differences aside, certainly you understand that there is no good reason why a MD-88 Captain at a growing, profitable airline should make 80 bucks an hour with no retirement. Certainly you can agree with that?

Certainly you can believe that the Allegiant pilot group has FAR SUPERIOR representation than ALPA. You guys tell me that all the time. Can we agree on those two points?

We'll get back the above two points in a minute....

So you asked me why didn't just ALPA say "no?" I've discussed my opinion on that subject at length, but the bottom line was that, in my opinion, it wouldn't have mattered. The legacy carriers at that time couldn't compete with LCC's with employees working at wages far below the prevailing wages at the time. It just wasn't going to happen. Labor, back then, were an airline's highest cost, airlines in general were marginally profitable, and from a competitive standpoint having labor costs that were 100%+ higher was a death sentence. The legacy carriers' labor groups (all of them) had a choice. Either adapt to the low cost environment or perish. To blame "bad management," or "ALPA," in my opinion, is off point. There's not much either can do faced with huge labor cost disadvantages in an airline environment. Even today.

The problem continues in that even if one legacy airline "fell on its sword" to keep wages up, the spiral would have continued. LCC's would have grown into the void left by the failed carrier, gotten stronger, then the next legacy domino would feel even more pressure to compete against these growing, now stronger LCC's. An ALPA or APA or whoever "sacrificial lamb" would have done little to stop the cancer.

But let's say you don't buy my arguments above as to why it wouldn't have made sense for us to "just say no" as you state. Maybe I can illustrate the point in a way that you can understand.

Reread my first several sentences. Maybe some pilots "didn't say no" for the same reasons the Allegiant pilots didn't just say no to your latest contract? Despite superior representation (in your group's opinion I'm sure), a growing airlne, a profitable airline, you still have no retirement and low wages. Why didn't YOU say no? Why didn't the Allegiant pilot group's superior representation deliver an industry standard contact? Why didn't the Allegiant pilot group collectively say "NO" to ANY part of its contract that was substandard to any ALPA contracts? Contracts that were negotiated by clueless, bloated, overpaid ALPA leaders? Certainly the Allegiant pilot group could have chose to lead by example and show us all how it's done.......but they chose not to. Why?

Your hypocrisy boggles the mind. The inaction of your pilot group is a result of your inability to affect change? So you are back to taking no responsibilty for you circumstances and blaming everyone else, good grief! In your history lesson you forgot the part about that precedent setting LCC surpassing your pay!

I don't thnk anybody at Allegiant is claiming to have superior anything (well maybe QOL)......that would be you! I am fairly certain that most Allegiant pilots are comfortable in their choices and the direction this airline is headed in....as for me I have no interest in taking responsibility for your career so next time I suggest you save yourself the time and effort!

 

[Captzaahlie]

Where are the new hires being based?

Thx,
Z.

 

[100-1/2]

It is not about flight crew pay rates as much as who has the ramp and customer service on their payrolls.

Allegiant bullies local airports into contracting the ramp and ticket counter labor. It is easy to post profits when your direct costs per flight segment can be reduced so significantly.

The competition has this burden and is now reducing flights but unable to lose much of the ground support without adverse affect to on time ops. Inversely, their direct cost per flight segment is significantly increased and overall profitability deeper in the toilet.

100-1/2

 

[Daytonaflyer]

^^^
Really? Where did you get this information? Did you just make it all up in your head?

I suppose all those rampers we contract who work for Skywest, Expressjet, Frontier, Pinnacle, FBO's, etc. are all provided free of charge by the airport authority, right? Is that what you expect people to believe?

The truth is that paying to use another airline's employees to work our flights is actually more expensive than hiring our own employees to work those flights. We pay a hefty premium to use their people and equipment; but by doing so, we don't have to purchase all of the equipment, tugs, lav carts, bag loaders, etc. needed at each airport to service a large airplane and it gives us the flexibility to leave an airport if the route is not profitable.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I have a question.

I applied to united years ago, got turned down. They took the 3 military guys that didnt have any 121 experience and let us 3 civilian guys with 121 experience and transport category time go.

Applied to NW got turned down, dont have a type in a 73 so I never applied to southwest. Couldnt crack the AMR, Delta, UPS or FDX code.

So I get a job. Not with allegiant but with a small cargo company that doesnt pay the same as fdx or ups.

Since I work for a small company not making the greatest wages but I do make a comfortable living have a few toys, my company makes money and is growing.

I would like to ask, how am I bringing down the industry !!

To you allegiant guys and grils, good for you. If your happy more power to you.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

^^^
Truth finally. The fact is that Allegiant is a successful, growing company and every year we are working to raise our pay rates. Eventually our pay rates will probably be higher than some of the larger companies that continually lose money. It's just a matter of time, it happened with Southwest. This is nothing new.

 

[crxpilot]

^^^
Truth finally. The fact is that Allegiant is a successful, growing company and every year we are working to raise our pay rates. Eventually our pay rates will probably be higher than some of the larger companies that continually lose money. It's just a matter of time, it happened with Southwest. This is nothing new.

Geesh, quit comparing us to Southwest. Thats a pipe dream at best.

 

[100-1/2]

^^^
Really? Where did you get this information? Did you just make it all up in your head?

I suppose all those rampers we contract who work for Skywest, Expressjet, Frontier, Pinnacle, FBO's, etc. are all provided free of charge by the airport authority, right? Is that what you expect people to believe?

The truth is that paying to use another airline's employees to work our flights is actually more expensive than hiring our own employees to work those flights. We pay a hefty premium to use their people and equipment; but by doing so, we don't have to purchase all of the equipment, tugs, lav carts, bag loaders, etc. needed at each airport to service a large airplane and it gives us the flexibility to leave an airport if the route is not profitable.

Spoken like a true Hussein Obama-esque charismawanabee.

"You're just making stuff up."

"You don't know what you are talking about."

"Let's be honest here."

Allegiant Travel Co ALGT:NASDAQ
Sector: Transportation Industry: Airline
36.84 0.00 0.00%0Last Trade as of November 6, 2008Trade Add to WatchlistLastChange / % ChangeVolumeS&P Ranking
Set AlertsSummary News Charts Options Fundamentals Insiders Earnings Financials SEC Filings



Income StatementBalance SheetCash Flow

Annual Data | Quarterly Data



Balance Sheet

12 Month Period Ending:
Currency is US Dollar 12/31/200412/31/200512/31/200612/31/2007AssetsCash & Equivalents1,56921,259130,273144,269Short Term Investments032,0665,80827,110Cash and Short Term Inv1,56953,325136,081171,379Trade Accts Recvble, Net2,7386,7427,3279,084Other Receivables----06,228Total Receivables, Net2,7386,7427,32715,312Invent. - Raw Materials1,5811,4313,8036,918Inventories - Other(34)(44)(56)(374)Total Inventory1,5471,3873,7476,544Prepaid Expenses4,4839,2848,16214,718Restricted Cash - Current11,8303,6128,63915,383Other Current Assets3,3022,7274,7001,552Other Curr. Assets, Total15,1326,33913,33916,935Total Current Assets25,46977,077168,656224,888Machinery/Equipment42,10566,983121,486168,793Leases028,53028,56136,286Prop./Plant/Equip. - Gross42,10595,513150,047205,079Accumulated Depreciation(3,621)(8,444)(18,833)(33,909)Prop./Plant/Equip. - Net38,48487,069131,214171,170Long Term Investments----01,976Other Long Term Assets1,0864,7123,2867,353Total Assets65,474170,083305,726405,425 LiabilitiesAccounts Payable5,20114,15817,40921,302Accrued Expenses2,7704,88210,24813,174Notes Payable/ST Debt0000Curr. Port. LT Dbt/Cap Ls.7,67210,62714,88818,196Deferred Income Tax----0456Other Current Liabilities16,01837,14945,27774,851Other Curr. Lblts, Total16,01837,14945,27775,307Total Current Liabilities31,66166,81687,822127,979Long Term Debt24,32023,86936,73731,890Capital Lease Obligations025,25121,14022,060Total Long Term Debt24,32049,12057,87753,950Total Debt31,99259,74772,76572,146Deferred Income Tax006,55613,165Total Liabilities55,981115,936152,255195,094 Shareholder EquityRedeemable Preferred Stock039,5400--Common Stock1,7661,7662021Additional Paid-In Capital(165)0136,159159,863Ret. Earn.(Accum. Deficit)7,89913,74419,08850,434Treasury Stock - Common(7)(1,007)0--Other Equity, Total0104(1,796)13Total Equity9,49354,147153,471210,331Total Liabilities & Shareholders� Equity65,474170,083305,726405,425Ttl Comm. Shares Outs.11,53811,53819,79620,738




Income Statement

12 Month Period Ending:
Currency is US Dollar 12/31/2003
12 Months12/31/2004
12 Months12/31/2005
12 Months12/31/2006
12 Months12/31/2007
12 MonthsRevenue and Gross ProfitRevenue49,97090,365132,500243,350359,309Other Revenue, Total------01,264Total Revenue49,97090,365132,500243,350360,573 Operating ExpensesCost of Revenue, Total11,75527,91452,568101,561152,149Selling/Gen/Admin Expense19,70030,37033,72458,74375,295Labor & Related Expense8,17615,37921,71834,95050,761Sell/Gen/AdminExpenses,Tot27,87645,74955,44293,693126,056Depreciation/Amortization1,1812,1835,08810,58415,992Other Operat Expse, Total6,2588,44110,90114,95922,316Total Operating Expense47,07084,287123,999220,797316,513 Operating Income2,9006,0788,50122,55344,060 Non-Operating Income & ExpensesInter Expse,Net Non-Operat(831)(1,399)(3,009)(5,517)(5,523)Inter Income, Non-Operating9301,2252,9739,161Invest Income, Non-Operat3144,438612(4,193)3,070Inter/Invest Inc, Non-Oper3234,4681,837(1,220)12,231Inter Inc(Exp),Net Non-Oper(508)3,069(1,172)(6,737)6,708Other, Net913000(63)Income Before Tax3,3059,1477,32915,81650,705 Income TaxesIncome Tax - Total112377,07619,196Income After Tax3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Minority Interest and Equity in AffiliatesNet Inc Before Extra Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Net Income3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Adjustments to Net IncomeIncome Available to Common Excl. Extra. Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Income Available to Common Incl. Extra. Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 EPS ReconciliationBasic/Primary Weighted Average Shares11,53811,53813,11116,96120,243Basic/Primary EPS Excl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.56Basic/Primary EPS Incl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.56Dilution Adjustment0000--Diluted Weighted Average Shares11,53811,53813,11116,96120,529Diluted EPS Excl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.53Diluted EPS Incl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.53 Common Stock DividendsDiv/Share-ComStockPrimIssue0.000.000.000.000.00Gross Divid - Common Stock00000 Pro Forma IncomeStock Based Compensation00228----Pro Forma Net Income3,3049,1357,064----Pro Forma Basic EPS0.290.790.61----Pro Forma Diluted EPS0.290.790.61---- Supplemental ItemsInterest Expense, Suppl8311,3993,0095,5175,523Depreciat/Amort, Suppl1,1812,1835,08810,58415,992 Normalized IncomeNormalized Income Before Tax3,3059,1477,32915,81650,705InclTaxExcl/ImpactSpecItems112377,07619,196Normalized Income After Tax3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Normalized Inc Avail to Common3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Basic Normalized EPS0.290.790.560.521.56Diluted Normalized EPS0.290.790.560.521.53



Just in case you are actually an idiot dressed up in a clown suit.

How can you increase revenue 7 times over the last 5 years while only increasing debt by 50%, operating cost by 150%? SOMEBODY ELSE IS PICKING UP THE TAB!

ALGT is a Cash cow and its management is VERY Stingy. They have the best cash basis compared to 50 of the top Fortune 500 THAT OFFER DIVEDENDS!!!

Will ALGT EVER Have a Divedend Dare I querry?

I must not know what I am talking about.

I apologize if i just set your brain on fire with truth, facts and a REAL argument.
100-1/2

 

[Caveman]

I have a question.

I applied to united years ago, got turned down. They took the 3 military guys that didnt have any 121 experience and let us 3 civilian guys with 121 experience and transport category time go.

Applied to NW got turned down, dont have a type in a 73 so I never applied to southwest. Couldnt crack the AMR, Delta, UPS or FDX code.

So I get a job. Not with allegiant but with a small cargo company that doesnt pay the same as fdx or ups.

Since I work for a small company not making the greatest wages but I do make a comfortable living have a few toys, my company makes money and is growing.

I would like to ask, how am I bringing down the industry !!

To you allegiant guys and grils, good for you. If your happy more power to you.

This is the point I've been making for years whenever somebody complains about pilots working at jobs for 'substandard' wages. Not everybody gets to work for FedEx or SWA. We all aren't the annointed ones. Whenever somebody complains about regional pilots or LCC pilots or anybody else I simply tell them "Great, I'd love to work at FedEx. When do I start?". It's an extremely competitive hiring market and not everyone gets a dream job. A lot of us have to make do with pretty good jobs. Personally, I'm grateful for mine and my friends at Allegiant are grateful for theirs.

 

[Mr Wu]

How can you increase revenue 7 times over the last 5 years while only increasing debt by 50%, operating cost by 150%? SOMEBODY ELSE IS PICKING UP THE TAB!

Probably by better management than you have and ancilliary revenue. What's the point of raising revenue if you increase debt by the same amount? We're not a legacy carrier so we don't do that. As far as dividends go, you do realize that this is the airline industry? If you want your money to sit for 6 months while you make a .5% dividend, give it to me. I'll guarantee you .5% every 6 months to use your money.

Sorry you didn't get hired. There's another class in January, try for that one.

 

[Ameriagle]

Spoken like a true Hussein Obama-esque charismawanabee.

"You're just making stuff up."

"You don't know what you are talking about."

"Let's be honest here."

Allegiant Travel Co ALGT:NASDAQ
Sector: Transportation Industry: Airline
36.84 0.00 0.00%0Last Trade as of November 6, 2008Trade Add to WatchlistLastChange / % ChangeVolumeS&P Ranking
Set AlertsSummary News Charts Options Fundamentals Insiders Earnings Financials SEC Filings



Income StatementBalance SheetCash Flow

Annual Data | Quarterly Data



Balance Sheet

12 Month Period Ending:
Currency is US Dollar 12/31/200412/31/200512/31/200612/31/2007AssetsCash & Equivalents1,56921,259130,273144,269Short Term Investments032,0665,80827,110Cash and Short Term Inv1,56953,325136,081171,379Trade Accts Recvble, Net2,7386,7427,3279,084Other Receivables----06,228Total Receivables, Net2,7386,7427,32715,312Invent. - Raw Materials1,5811,4313,8036,918Inventories - Other(34)(44)(56)(374)Total Inventory1,5471,3873,7476,544Prepaid Expenses4,4839,2848,16214,718Restricted Cash - Current11,8303,6128,63915,383Other Current Assets3,3022,7274,7001,552Other Curr. Assets, Total15,1326,33913,33916,935Total Current Assets25,46977,077168,656224,888Machinery/Equipment42,10566,983121,486168,793Leases028,53028,56136,286Prop./Plant/Equip. - Gross42,10595,513150,047205,079Accumulated Depreciation(3,621)(8,444)(18,833)(33,909)Prop./Plant/Equip. - Net38,48487,069131,214171,170Long Term Investments----01,976Other Long Term Assets1,0864,7123,2867,353Total Assets65,474170,083305,726405,425 LiabilitiesAccounts Payable5,20114,15817,40921,302Accrued Expenses2,7704,88210,24813,174Notes Payable/ST Debt0000Curr. Port. LT Dbt/Cap Ls.7,67210,62714,88818,196Deferred Income Tax----0456Other Current Liabilities16,01837,14945,27774,851Other Curr. Lblts, Total16,01837,14945,27775,307Total Current Liabilities31,66166,81687,822127,979Long Term Debt24,32023,86936,73731,890Capital Lease Obligations025,25121,14022,060Total Long Term Debt24,32049,12057,87753,950Total Debt31,99259,74772,76572,146Deferred Income Tax006,55613,165Total Liabilities55,981115,936152,255195,094 Shareholder EquityRedeemable Preferred Stock039,5400--Common Stock1,7661,7662021Additional Paid-In Capital(165)0136,159159,863Ret. Earn.(Accum. Deficit)7,89913,74419,08850,434Treasury Stock - Common(7)(1,007)0--Other Equity, Total0104(1,796)13Total Equity9,49354,147153,471210,331Total Liabilities & Shareholders� Equity65,474170,083305,726405,425Ttl Comm. Shares Outs.11,53811,53819,79620,738




Income Statement

12 Month Period Ending:
Currency is US Dollar 12/31/2003
12 Months12/31/2004
12 Months12/31/2005
12 Months12/31/2006
12 Months12/31/2007
12 MonthsRevenue and Gross ProfitRevenue49,97090,365132,500243,350359,309Other Revenue, Total------01,264Total Revenue49,97090,365132,500243,350360,573 Operating ExpensesCost of Revenue, Total11,75527,91452,568101,561152,149Selling/Gen/Admin Expense19,70030,37033,72458,74375,295Labor & Related Expense8,17615,37921,71834,95050,761Sell/Gen/AdminExpenses,Tot27,87645,74955,44293,693126,056Depreciation/Amortization1,1812,1835,08810,58415,992Other Operat Expse, Total6,2588,44110,90114,95922,316Total Operating Expense47,07084,287123,999220,797316,513 Operating Income2,9006,0788,50122,55344,060 Non-Operating Income & ExpensesInter Expse,Net Non-Operat(831)(1,399)(3,009)(5,517)(5,523)Inter Income, Non-Operating9301,2252,9739,161Invest Income, Non-Operat3144,438612(4,193)3,070Inter/Invest Inc, Non-Oper3234,4681,837(1,220)12,231Inter Inc(Exp),Net Non-Oper(508)3,069(1,172)(6,737)6,708Other, Net913000(63)Income Before Tax3,3059,1477,32915,81650,705 Income TaxesIncome Tax - Total112377,07619,196Income After Tax3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Minority Interest and Equity in AffiliatesNet Inc Before Extra Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Net Income3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 Adjustments to Net IncomeIncome Available to Common Excl. Extra. Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Income Available to Common Incl. Extra. Items3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509 EPS ReconciliationBasic/Primary Weighted Average Shares11,53811,53813,11116,96120,243Basic/Primary EPS Excl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.56Basic/Primary EPS Incl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.56Dilution Adjustment0000--Diluted Weighted Average Shares11,53811,53813,11116,96120,529Diluted EPS Excl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.53Diluted EPS Incl. Extra. Items0.290.790.560.521.53 Common Stock DividendsDiv/Share-ComStockPrimIssue0.000.000.000.000.00Gross Divid - Common Stock00000 Pro Forma IncomeStock Based Compensation00228----Pro Forma Net Income3,3049,1357,064----Pro Forma Basic EPS0.290.790.61----Pro Forma Diluted EPS0.290.790.61---- Supplemental ItemsInterest Expense, Suppl8311,3993,0095,5175,523Depreciat/Amort, Suppl1,1812,1835,08810,58415,992 Normalized IncomeNormalized Income Before Tax3,3059,1477,32915,81650,705InclTaxExcl/ImpactSpecItems112377,07619,196Normalized Income After Tax3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Normalized Inc Avail to Common3,3049,1357,2928,74031,509Basic Normalized EPS0.290.790.560.521.56Diluted Normalized EPS0.290.790.560.521.53



Just in case you are actually an idiot dressed up in a clown suit.

How can you increase revenue 7 times over the last 5 years while only increasing debt by 50%, operating cost by 150%? SOMEBODY ELSE IS PICKING UP THE TAB!

ALGT is a Cash cow and its management is VERY Stingy. They have the best cash basis compared to 50 of the top Fortune 500 THAT OFFER DIVEDENDS!!!

Will ALGT EVER Have a Divedend Dare I querry?

I must not know what I am talking about.

I apologize if i just set your brain on fire with truth, facts and a REAL argument.
100-1/2

Don't apply and don't invest....there you go, nothing to worry about...problem solved!

 

[Ameriagle]

I suppose defaulting on obligations via bankrupcy would be the appropriate way to do business, after all with one exception thats what all the legacies have done!

 

[VxClimb]

Allegiant is the only US airline to post a profit in the third quarter, could be the only US airline to post a profit this year,one of maybe a few(if that) airlines hiring, receiving more airplanes and adding more cities and has thousands of resumes on file and interviewing daily......but they are a cash cow, pilots are soft, company is mismanaged and overall a bad economic business plan....... You have a great argument!!!

 

[The Victors]

I have a question.

I applied to united years ago, got turned down. They took the 3 military guys that didnt have any 121 experience and let us 3 civilian guys with 121 experience and transport category time go.

Applied to NW got turned down, dont have a type in a 73 so I never applied to southwest. Couldnt crack the AMR, Delta, UPS or FDX code.

So I get a job. Not with allegiant but with a small cargo company that doesnt pay the same as fdx or ups.

Since I work for a small company not making the greatest wages but I do make a comfortable living have a few toys, my company makes money and is growing.

I would like to ask, how am I bringing down the industry !!

To you allegiant guys and grils, good for you. If your happy more power to you.

We'll lets see. Let's say your company decides to expand rapidly and compete with ups/fdx directly (the freight world is much different, so it's hard to compare). They would probably do well because their costs are lower because you accept low, below standard pay and benefits. As your company continues to expand and do well on the backs of it's underpaid employees, it hurts ups/fdx. Eventually ups/fdx have to lower costs to compete with your company. This would include pilots taking paycuts. This is how the industry is brought down by pilots working for substandard wages. Get it now.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Spoken like a true Hussein Obama-esque charismawanabee.

"You're just making stuff up."

"You don't know what you are talking about."

"Let's be honest here."

Just in case you are actually an idiot dressed up in a clown suit.

How can you increase revenue 7 times over the last 5 years while only increasing debt by 50%, operating cost by 150%? SOMEBODY ELSE IS PICKING UP THE TAB!

ALGT is a Cash cow and its management is VERY Stingy. They have the best cash basis compared to 50 of the top Fortune 500 THAT OFFER DIVEDENDS!!!

Will ALGT EVER Have a Divedend Dare I querry?

I must not know what I am talking about.

I apologize if i just set your brain on fire with truth, facts and a REAL argument.
100-1/2

I took accounting 101 too. You don't have to "set my brain on fire" with your basic accounting skills.

You can querry all you want, but what the heck is a dividend dare? I assume you meant a dividend date.

Taken direct from the annual report:

Our operating expenses increased by 43.4%, or $95.7 million, to $316.5 million in 2007 compared
to $220.8 for 2006.
In general, our operating expenses are significantly affected by changes in our capacity, as
measured by ASMs.​

Our operating revenue increased 48.2%, or $117.2 million, to $360.6 million in 2007 from

$243.4 million in 2006. This was driven by a 39.5% increase in total system revenue passenger miles​

(‘‘RPMs’’) and a 10.0% increase in revenue per ASM (‘‘RASM’’).

I too could cut and paste a bunch of balance sheet info on here in an attempt to trick others into thinking that I'm a financial guru, but I'd rather post what matters.
So please explain to me, what are you seeing that I am not? There are no big secrets here; it's a public company with all major investors accounted for. Expenses are continually lower than revenue.

It doesn't matter if operating expenses increase 150% or 300% as long as income exceeds the expense.
Allegiant receives revenue by selling airline tickets, show tickets, hotels, rental cars, shuttles, souvenirs, snacks, drinks, amusement park admission, golf packages, tours, bag fees, boarding fees, seat fees, booking fees, etc. All of these add up fast and help make the airline profitable. It doesn't mean there's some ongoing financial conspiracy. It doesn't mean we're being funneled secret funds from a hidden investor.
Any airline can do the same, we don't have a monopoly on sales.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

We'll lets see. Let's say your company decides to expand rapidly and compete with ups/fdx directly (the freight world is much different, so it's hard to compare). They would probably do well because their costs are lower because you accept low, below standard pay and benefits. As your company continues to expand and do well on the backs of it's underpaid employees, it hurts ups/fdx. Eventually ups/fdx have to lower costs to compete with your company. This would include pilots taking paycuts. This is how the industry is brought down by pilots working for substandard wages. Get it now.

Yes, I think we all understand that argument, it is a typical argument, and it's incredibly simplistic thinking which only applies if all variables are the same between two airlines. They are not.
There ARE other scheduled cargo companies that compete directly with FedEx and UPS. Almost all of them pay significantly lower wages than the big two, yet many of them have struggled and/or failed while FedEx and UPS continue to thrive. Many of these smaller cargo companies pay wages less than half that of the big two, yet remain unsucessful. Why? Answer that.

Clearly employee wages are not the only factor determining the financial success of a company. There are many factors. We should be complaining that you guys at large airlines have pulled down wages by allowing your companies to fall into banckruptcy and accepting huge pay cuts which is strikingly similar to the effect detrimental effect foreclosures have on home values in real estate.

Another example, the union auto companies of Detroit now have lower wages than many of their foreign competitor's, yet they still continue to struggle. GM is in desperate need of cash, and Chrysler may not survive without a buyer soon. If your argument were correct, then the company should be doing well given their sub-standard employee wages. They are not. Why? Answer that too.

None of that matters though, because Allegiant's wages are improving and eventually they will be similar to other airlines.

 

[BRA]

We'll lets see. Let's say your company decides to expand rapidly and compete with ups/fdx directly (the freight world is much different, so it's hard to compare). They would probably do well because their costs are lower because you accept low, below standard pay and benefits. As your company continues to expand and do well on the backs of it's underpaid employees, it hurts ups/fdx. Eventually ups/fdx have to lower costs to compete with your company. This would include pilots taking paycuts. This is how the industry is brought down by pilots working for substandard wages. Get it now.

Still though, what do you suggest this guy should have done. He didn't by pass applying to the higher paying places, they wouldn't take him. He didn't try to beat the system. Does he sit home and collect welfare until UAL called? Multiple places shot him down and he still has bills to pay. He most likely invested some money into being an airline pilot. Does he have to not be an airline pilot because a choice company didn't hire him. I got shot down by one airline and several others that I applied to decided I wasn't worth their time. I got hired at other places and I got several type ratings and became a checkairman. I have thousands of hours of letter of investigation free PIC. So nothing was wrong with me. How much did your first flying jobs pay and were they paid at or above industry standard?

Is it fair to say that over 90% of the pilots on this board have worked at places that did not have industry leading pay? Weren't all those pilots that accepted jobs at companies without industry leading contracts helping to bring the industry down?

 

[BRA]

Anyone hear that in the near future Allegiant will revolutionize the industry by actually employing roadies for ramp operations. Even using them in place of flight attendants. Drug testing and allowing pyrotechnics on the runway are the last road blocks to making it happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCJLoie5EGg

 

[Mamma]

We should be complaining that you guys at large airlines have pulled down wages by allowing your companies to fall into banckruptcy and accepting huge pay cuts which is strikingly similar to the effect detrimental effect foreclosures have on home values in real estate.

Interesting take but I think you are reaching a little too much. First, rank and file employees do not "allow" management to take a company into bankruptcy. That is management decision alone. Second, most airline employees did not "accept" lower pay when in bankruptcy...rates were forced upon them by judges. I think your rates are too low but your quality of life seems to rock when compared to just about everyone else.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Interesting take but I think you are reaching a little too much. First, rank and file employees do not "allow" management to take a company into bankruptcy. That is management decision alone. Second, most airline employees did not "accept" lower pay when in bankruptcy...rates were forced upon them by judges. I think your rates are too low but your quality of life seems to rock when compared to just about everyone else.

I agree with you, but it's a stretch to say that Allegiant is bringing down your pay rates too. If pay rates were so dependent on competitors pay rates, SWA would no longer pay significantly more than other B737 operators.
FedEx and UPS would no longer pay more than other jumbo jet cargo operators either.
It is the business plan, decisions of management, and success of the entire company that determines whether pay is raised or lowered.

The day these companies show continuous losses, they too may lower their pay rates, regardless of what their competition is doing.

 

[Tri-holer]

Still though, what do you suggest this guy should have done. He didn't by pass applying to the higher paying places, they wouldn't take him. He didn't try to beat the system. Does he sit home and collect welfare until UAL called? Multiple places shot him down and he still has bills to pay. He most likely invested some money into being an airline pilot. Does he have to not be an airline pilot because a choice company didn't hire him. I got shot down by one airline and several others that I applied to decided I wasn't worth their time. I got hired at other places and I got several type ratings and became a checkairman. I have thousands of hours of letter of investigation free PIC. So nothing was wrong with me. How much did your first flying jobs pay and were they paid at or above industry standard?

Is it fair to say that over 90% of the pilots on this board have worked at places that did not have industry leading pay? Weren't all those pilots that accepted jobs at companies without industry leading contracts helping to bring the industry down?

Not me. I purposely avoided applying at those industry leading companies and only applied at LCCs whose stated purpose was to bring down the industry. There, I've said it and I feel free. I had no desire to work at a company with good pay and good schedules and instead concentrated on those companies where I knew I would be getting less pay for flying the same aircraft. Isn't that the American way.

Now, here I am stuck flying MD-80s for less than I could get at one of those industry leading companies and doggone it, my company is starting to pay pretty decent. I think it is almost time to start sending resumes out to more of the lower paying companies and see if I can get a job there and continue to "bring down the industry."

If you are at one of those industry-leading companies (not totally sure who that is anymore), congratulations. It is great that you are set for life and have a good retirement program. Just realize that because my family needs shelter and food, I have to work. I may not be in what you consider the best job (or even a suitable job), but I am doing what I have to do. We all do - even the guy who cleans out portapotties. I am sure he isn't exactly where he started out wanting to be.

The only fly in the ointment to my plan to leave here and go find a lower paying opportunity is my family. They like me being home every night and off a lot. Isn't that just the way it goes?

 

[chperplt]

The only fly in the ointment to my plan to leave here and go find a lower paying opportunity is my family. They like me being home every night and off a lot. Isn't that just the way it goes?

You can always replace the family....

 

[727Niteflyer]

We'll lets see. Let's say your company decides to expand rapidly and compete with ups/fdx directly (the freight world is much different, so it's hard to compare). They would probably do well because their costs are lower because you accept low, below standard pay and benefits. As your company continues to expand and do well on the backs of it's underpaid employees, it hurts ups/fdx. Eventually ups/fdx have to lower costs to compete with your company. This would include pilots taking paycuts. This is how the industry is brought down by pilots working for substandard wages. Get it now.

well lets see. My company doesnt compete against fdx or UPS and never will. My company is expanding but at a snails pace. I would hardly say that they are expanding on the backs of employees. They are expanding because of acquiring contracts which are very few and far between. The pipe dream of me ever working for a major carrier freight or passenger is long since gone. Now Im in it for myself and my family, not some jacka$$ american delta or fedex pilot. But gee maybe a large carrier like ups will buy my carrier. And Ill have the opportunity to work for a real airline making big bucks, Just like what happened to emery, cat, challenge and countless others. THATS HOW PILOTS TREAT PILOTS. Bottom line they dont care about me I dont care about them. Get that !!

 

[727Niteflyer]

so just to add more salt in the wound. I didnt get hired at a major carrier. I wasnt qualified with 9000hrs. The guys with 1500 hours were more qualified. So now I have to work where I can. And if that means my company competes against yours and hurts your agenda so be it. Just remember Im one of the ones that got turned down.

Go allegiant !!

 

[Freight Dog]

Got a question for ALGT boys and girls...

In the lobby over at corporate offices, aside from MD80 models and Allegiant memorabilia, they have an Airbus in the display. Re-fleeting sometime soon?