allegiant air J/S

[PCL_128]

Active for about 25-30 people these days. Only 3 showed up at a recent roadshow.

Thirty people on an organizing committee for a pilot group the size of Allegiant's is actually excellent. When you can get 10% of a pilot group to put their name to an organizing drive rather than just voting for it, that really indicates strong support among the pilot group. Regarding the road shows, after only two weeks of road shows, over one third of the entire pilot group has attended. That's excellent attendance.

Pending ratification, our much deserved raise goes into effect May 1st and brings us in line with the industry. Our advisory group did in 3 months what your company (with ALPA) hasn't been able to do in how long?

You received your pay proposal the day after the ALPA drive became official. Gee, I wonder what spurred the company to finally give you what you deserve?

I realize with that 40+ million pay out ALPA is about to give the UAL pilots, they need our dues money, but I think we'll pass this time around.

Because of Allegiant's small pilot group, representing you would actually cost ALPA far more money than you'd bring in, at least until you grow to about double your current size. Dues revenue is far from ALPA's mind on this one.

 

[temcgrew]

I highly doubt ALPA would have gotten the rates we were offered, and if they did it would take another 3 years locked in at our current rates. The % of increase is right in line with what the company has offered in the past. The only thing I see when I think of ALPA at Allegiant is a brick wall in between us and management.

 

[jonjuan]

Allegiant has great people who are excellent and professional aviators.

Easy little fella!!!
"we have too many that are willing to fly jets for almost nothing."

Which is it?

 

[chperplt]

You received your pay proposal the day after the ALPA drive became official. Gee, I wonder what spurred the company to finally give you what you deserve?

Yes... We got our new compensation plan agreed to the day of the first road show. Bravo to the Allegiant OC for playing thier role well... up to that point anyway.

The point is.. The pilots of Allegiant Air were able to get a huge raise and a few better work rules within 3 months of the start of negotiations.

How long have you been trying to get a contract at Airtran?

The point is... You clearly have a management team that is unwilling to work with you, to ensure a successful outcome. On the other hand, we have a management team that stepped up to the plate. They could have sat back and watched while we fought for the next 10 years to try and get a contract.

As you said over on APC, I called you an idiot without ever having met you in person. Some people you just don't know how to take based on an internet message board.. You are not some people... You make it very easy to say without hesitation that you're an idiot. I could substitute moron for idiot, but in the end you're just one of them.

 

[PCL_128]

How long have you been trying to get a contract at Airtran?

Our contract has been amendable for five years, but we've had an enforceable contract during that entire time with a grievance process, disciplinary representation, legal assistance, etc. The Allegiant pilots have none of this. Your smart move would be to vote in favor of the pay package that you've been offered, and then vote in a union. This would lock in the new pay rates while providing you with the protections of a union. You now have the industry-average wages, but what about the other protections?

As you said over on APC, I called you an idiot without ever having met you in person. Some people you just don't know how to take based on an internet message board.. You are not some people... You make it very easy to say without hesitation that you're an idiot. I could substitute moron for idiot, but in the end you're just one of them.

I'd be more than happy to talk to you off of this forum, and I think you'd find that that's not the case. But hey, believe what you will.

 

[chperplt]

I'd be more than happy to talk to you off of this forum, and I think you'd find that that's not the case. But hey, believe what you will.

I'm not going to argue the union point any longer. You and I clearly see things differently at this point in time.

I apologize for calling you an idiot. Maybe hard headed is the better word, and can clearly apply to myself as well.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not going to argue the union point any longer. You and I clearly see things differently at this point in time.

You can always PM me. I am curious why you think a union would be detrimental at Allegiant.

I apologize for calling you an idiot. Maybe hard headed is the better word

I can't argue with that one.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

No need for politics....

....and there is no need to tell the Cavity Creeps about Crest, either! Politics on a jumpseat thread are just wrong. As far as the other stuff, I don't give a round rat's rectum what anyone else thinks about our pay or politics, especially from a PFTer. I be chillin' while you be illin'. Fly your own airplane and quite stepping on our Addidas.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

The smartest thing would be to agree to the proposed agreement then immediately (along with EVERYONE else in this industry) go to your congressional representative and DEMAND the end of the Railway Labor Act. There is NO reason today with all the options available for travel that we should not be able to strike if so voted on. It is sickening that we can be 4+ years PAST amendable and yet still "forced" to work under pay and rules frozen at that point with no legal recourse. If I were mgt. I'd drag my feet as long a possible (forever) too. They have no incentive to ever negotiate as it stands now. The RLA, like many parts to our government are at least 2 if not 3 or 4 generations out of date and in great need of change. Unfortunately we have allowed the politicians to take powers from the people that they never had nor should ever have. Many things that in the 1800's that would have then required an amendment to the constitution were allowed to be taken in the name of war or progressivism or equality or whatever buzz word fit at the time.

 

[Gearthrower]

I hope for the Allegiant pilot's they do get the raise, but the unfortunate truth is the document is not legally recognized or binding to the company and contains no scope or work rules. If you believe it will be negotiated later pleezz. As for the comment about a brick wall between management that sounds like a plan to me. What happens when Maurice sells the place? I can tell you it wont take to long for the new owners or management to take this back. As for your negotiating committee, let me guess, it is comprised of senior check airman who golf with the VP of Flight Ops on Sunday or they are on the top third of the seniority list. If they really wanted you to be happy they would have given you this pay raise instantly and not wait till May 1st.

And yes, I have read your new document and it has more squishy language than any ALPA contract I have every read. And its not a TA, because its not binding.

I wish all the Allegiant folks well, but dont confuse this for anything other than what it really is, which is an attempt to keep you non-unionized. I have worked for non-union carrier's and unionized carriers, IBT and ALPA an would rather work for a unionized carrier..

Flame on!

 

[chperplt]

Funny... You're blasting me for not wanting ALPA here, when just a short time ago, you felt the same.


------------------------------------------------
07-11-2006, 09:06 #25 Dix-Bag
Registered User


Posts: 71
Civ/Mil: mil
A/C Flown: some jets and stuff
Ratings: DC-10 DC-9
Curr Position: Sad Sapp
Total Time: Yes


Considering ALPA has not so much as approached the pilot group at Allegiant. In fact, over a year ago, they plain told the pilot group that they were "too small" to be represented by ALPA "at this time".... That's a good thing though... Keep ALPA outa here..

 

[Dix-Bag]

Intelligent people revise their thought process when educated.

 

[chperplt]

Intelligent people revise their thought process when educated.

You're not showing too much intelligence here or in your e-mails. Time to move on to plan D or E.

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

Do NOT post identifying information, this is a violation of the FI Terms Of Service. Further violations will get you a FI vacation for a while.

Also, please refrain from using profanity, even hidden with *** marks, when directed at an individual. We don't need the mud-slinging that threads typically devolve into once profanity is introduced.

Thanks for your understanding.

/mod

 

[Daytonaflyer]

I hope for the Allegiant pilot's they do get the raise, but the unfortunate truth is the document is not legally recognized or binding to the company and contains no scope or work rules. If you believe it will be negotiated later pleezz. As for the comment about a brick wall between management that sounds like a plan to me. What happens when Maurice sells the place? I can tell you it wont take to long for the new owners or management to take this back. As for your negotiating committee, let me guess, it is comprised of senior check airman who golf with the VP of Flight Ops on Sunday or they are on the top third of the seniority list. If they really wanted you to be happy they would have given you this pay raise instantly and not wait till May 1st.

And yes, I have read your new document and it has more squishy language than any ALPA contract I have every read. And its not a TA, because its not binding.

I wish all the Allegiant folks well, but dont confuse this for anything other than what it really is, which is an attempt to keep you non-unionized. I have worked for non-union carrier's and unionized carriers, IBT and ALPA an would rather work for a unionized carrier..

Flame on!

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. The TA is a TOTAL of 8 pages long. Only 3 pages make up the actual TA. The following 3 pages are graphs comparing our rates to other airlines in the industry, and the last 2 pages or so talk about things we were unable to obtain from the company. Most TA's are 50-100 pages long and cover far more information and in much more detail. Our actual TA is only 3 pages long.

The TA wasn't even issued from the company. It was written and issued by our in-house negotiating group (AAPAG). The company would not put it in writing.

 

[chperplt]

The company would not put it in writing.

They absolutely did.

 

[Mr Wu]

PCL128, with all your union work at the different airlines you worked for, how many TA's have you seen signed?

 

[Tri-holer]

What happens when Maurice sells the place?
If they really wanted you to be happy they would have given you this pay raise instantly and not wait till May 1st.

First off, it is not Maurice, it is Maury.

Second off, no problem waiting until May 1st - and I am "really happy."

Third off, had my share of dealing with ALPA. They offer some good things that we won't have but at a big cost. With their coming payout, of course, they want our dues.

Fourth off, once the TA (or whatever you want to call it since a union was not involved in securing it - however the OC was instrumental in motivating the offer and I thank them) is in effect, I sure would appreciate people not talking about our substandard pay.

Fifth off, living at my base as a junior capt on reserve, I sure love my life. I have slept in a hotel bed about a week total this year. My neighbors probably think I am unemployed as I am always at home. And I am involved in my kids life.

Sixth off, there is no Sixth off.

 

[Caveman]

What are the pay rates with this new agreement? Any changes to work rules, per diem, etc?

 

[BRA]

First off, it is not Maurice, it is Maury.

Second off, no problem waiting until May 1st - and I am "really happy."

Third off, had my share of dealing with ALPA. They offer some good things that we won't have but at a big cost. With their coming payout, of course, they want our dues.

Fourth off, once the TA (or whatever you want to call it since a union was not involved in securing it - however the OC was instrumental in motivating the offer and I thank them) is in effect, I sure would appreciate people not talking about our substandard pay.

Fifth off, living at my base as a junior capt on reserve, I sure love my life. I have slept in a hotel bed about a week total this year. My neighbors probably think I am unemployed as I am always at home. And I am involved in my kids life.

Sixth off, there is no Sixth off.

7 hotel nights for me too for the entire year. Half by choice. A few for training, and one due to weather closing the airport and not being enough of a cowboy to get out anyhow.