All this regional jet talk has got me asking a few questions?

[rchcfi]

I woke up, read this in Utah and said "Holy Cow, this is dead on!" I stopped in Idaho Falls around noon, read it again and was thoroughly pleased someone had put into words everything everyone always wanted to say about this industry, and now here I am reading it again just because it is so eloquently written......I second the notion that it should be sent to all those polls that show pilots making the #2 wage in the nation, pilot factories, and just the public in general.

 

[grinder]

Re: Mainline as ticket brokers.

Don't forget that mainline has already been able to outsource a fair amount of international flying in the form of codeshare or "partners" who happen to have lower costs. It is only a matter of time before mainline management attemps to use them for the transcons as well.

Grinder

 

[cmiller]

once pilots realize that there are no longer many major jobs, they will better unionize themselves at the RJ level and youll slowly start to see wages go up and not as tough schedules. Not to the 200k+ level obviously but prob back over 100K.

 

[cmiller]

oh yeah, i work at jet blue and heard that the E190 pilots are basically getting a Bscale pay wage bu i didnt think that there holding them to different schedules.. The way the e190 is configured (over 100 seats) still counts as a mainline and jetblue is running it as a mainline so all the pilot duty times still fall under the same part 121 category as the A320 pilots, just theyll only make 2/3 of the a320 pilot

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

The airlines needed a larger, more comfortable, platform to keep the business traveler from moving to LCCs that were still (for the most part) flying full-sized equipment.

LCCs?

 

[Reebo]

LCCs?

Low Cost Carriers

 

[Reebo]

The E-Jet Revolution:
Major airlines will become "ticket brokers" -- selling seats on airplanes they dont own. The only flying they will do is long-range transcon and international. Job opportunities at Legacy carriers are virtually gone. Pilots now will spend years (and thousands of dollars) training only to have max career earnings of less than $100,000/yr.
-end-

Crandle mentioned this in the early 90s, the future of AA. At the time it didnt seem possible, but now its only a matter of time. Just think for a moment, is the holiday inn you stayed at last night owned by holiday inn? The burger and fries you ate at McDonalds, who actually owns the store? Its called franchising and you are only buying the BRAND NAME. Do you really care that the employees dont work for the company of the BRAND you are buying? Neither do the passengers on our flights. Only those at the top will actually be employed by the BRAND name company, but they will reap the most rewards. Kudos to Bender for a great post

 

[TDTURBO]

If I ever find myself in a shinny jet, I'm keeping my shoes...my dog, my wife, my car, maybe? But they aren't getting my shoes...those cork soakers.

Birkenstock fan huh?

 

[Bryan D]

Now that we've identified the problem how do we fix it?

 

[TDTURBO]

I saw this coming 20 years ago when I wanted to fly for a major, but I wanted a more stable career and am glad I did. I think if I did it for a living for any amount of money, it still would become a job and would eventually hate it. So if you really love to fly, be a doctor, lawyer, CEO, real-estate speculator, investor in safe ventures, or any one of a million other areas that gaurentee 200K/yr. That way, you'll be able to fly for youself, no boss, no one telling you when and what you have to fly. You make all of the decisions. Sure it's hard work getting there, but if you want it, doing it the old fashoined way through an airline school will leave you broke, unhappy and bitter.

One more thing that pisses me off, Eagle Flights, that's right, eagle flights, why would I want to encourage anyone to fly, all it would do is add more traffic, boneheads violating restricted airspace, and more delays like the highway system. I tell everyone I meet NOT to become a pilot because it is expensive, dangerous and they will most likely end up being burned alive. That usually does it! I like it when it's just me and the sky without a thousand students cramming into a pattern doing touch and goes creating more noise and pissing off more neighbors who then call local athorities that eventually close the airports. Don't encourage people to fly, do the opposite, please!


You just got to love those stupid AOPA sponsored commercials that show a low time Cirrus pilot living large, if they only new. Those POS fall apart after 5 years and cost more than a Bonanza to fix, they are gas sucking dispoable airplanes that depreciate more than any other aircraft ever built.

I can't wait until Honda makes a twin or a single with their own engine, you know that will last and smoke the competition. For all those "I only buy USA" I can only say read a book, most american cars are made in Mexico and many if not most Toyotas are made in the US.

Can you imagine a Toyota single engine airplane? OMG, I can't wait!

 

[TDTURBO]

Now that we've identified the problem how do we fix it?

Change majors.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
Unfortunately, one of our brethen waxed poetic about the truth in the airline business. I agree that the course is pretty well set, and I don't see the airline industry leadership altering course for our benefit. ALPA pretty much dropped the ball on this in the early 90's with scope agreements being the norm. All the airline industry did was create a "B" scale in sheeps clothing, but with an even worse long-term consequence. Unlike B-scale where you have a job with a major. Here we are in the second-tier doing the same job as our legacy airline colleagues and to top it off we typically belong to the same union and our paychecks come out of the same pot.
We have become our own worst enemies while the industry leadership quietly smiles and knows that all the leverage is on their side now. As long as there is a seemingly endless supply of 20-somethings willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars, and be paid back piecemeal. This job is going to wind up being outsourced to off-shore pilots willing to fly for even less.
Take a look out on the ramp any given day and you'll see more and more work being outsourced to people that frankly don't have a clue. This is what frustrates me more than anything. Putting all your effort, education, skill and maturity into safely and efficiently operating your flights to deal with the bottom of the labor pool. There are exceptions and I don't want to generalize and offend those that work in other jobs besides flying airplanes at the airport. But, it does get to me sometimes to work in this industry. I realize that most of what goes on is out of my control, and press on and put 110% into my job...That to me is priceless.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[MJG]

This job is going to wind up being outsourced to off-shore pilots willing to fly for even less.

Agreed, EVERYONE and I mean everyone in this industry needs to know what the definition of Cabotage is. If you don't know look it up here. It is already here in one form (Chinese cargo airlines flying between U.S. city pairs). It is headed our way and some of our brilliant elected leaders in DC think it's a great idea.

You think B scales are bad. Wait till some Chinese pilot starts doing your already underpaid job for half of what you're currently making.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

It is already here in one form (Chinese cargo airlines flying between U.S. city pairs). It is headed our way and some of our brilliant elected leaders in DC think it's a great idea.

The question is; Can Chinese cargo airlines pick up freight in the US and drop in the US? Could it be that Chinese cargo can make a couple of pick ups in the US and then fly to China or whatnot as long as they don't drop off freight in the US after departing a US city? I know that Korean, JAL etc, can pick up pax at JFK and stop at LAX for more passengers, fuel and a fresh crew if necessary, but cannot drop off any passengers.

 

[wrxpilot]

It is already here in one form (Chinese cargo airlines flying between U.S. city pairs). It is headed our way and some of our brilliant elected leaders in DC think it's a great idea.

Are you freaking kidding me? I had no idea Chinese cargo haulers were doing work between US cities!!