All Female crew

[Lear70]

Lear,
The paragraphs are not contradictory. Your information is flawed, however.

Originally posted by English
And yes, I have been fortunate to be offered several jobs at both airlines and in the charter/corporate arena. But I didn't accept them all. I took the ones that moved me one step up the ladder and passed the leads on the ones I turned down to others I knew looking for work.

I stand corrected. Threads from a couple days ago blending together where English was talking about Avi8trxx or someone with a similar name having been furloughed from Eagle... my bad.

However, I stand by my assertion that your logic is flawed with two contradictory paragraphs. I think it's great that English has the opportunities she has, but don't go claiming that women have it any tougher than men in this career when you just got through praising how many job offers a woman has received of late... It's a non-sequitur (that means you made a statement and then made another statement and/or gave an example that says the exact opposite).

Originally posted by Eagle-ista
I do agree that the whole introduction of the female thing is truly beneath us all. It's just an excuse we all use when we can't get the job we've been chasing. It's too easy to blame it on someone that isn't as qualified as "I am" or "got in through a back door."

Easy to place blame? Absolutely, when in many cases (notice I didn't say ALL) the qualifications are so rediculously disparate that it's obvious to even the most aviation-uninitiated that it was something other than qualifications at work. Where does blame get us? Absolutely nowhere. The Japanese have a cool saying, "Fix the problem, not the blame"; in this instance that means getting out there and working harder to achieve your goals.

Excuses? No, I don't believe in making excuses; they won't help you accomplish a single goal.

Reason to keep working your butt off to get where you want to be? Absolutely! Every time I hear about someone with qualifications so far below the pool of available talent getting an interview somewhere we want to be, it just motivates me to work that much harder, as I know I'll be that much more satisfied with that career goal when I reach it knowing that I didn't get a single shortcut, but achieved it through sheer determination, hard work, and commitment to my aviation goals.

That's why I agree that the introduction of the female / minority / whatever card is beneeth us, as we all make our way through the aviation world in our own ways, and whining about "who has it sooo hard in this aviation world" or "who got there first and wasn't as good/experienced/qualified as me" *sniff* doesn't do anyone a d*mn bit of good.

I need to learn how to stay away from flamebait...

 

[sleepy]

Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Nope, I never posted I was furloughed from Eagle. I RESIGNED from Eagle. Anyone here on this board from Eagle that knows me knows what I did. I quit Eagle to take a captain "off the street" position on a Saab 340 with Colgan. I was furloughed from Colgan after 9/11. That's how I unintentionally got into the corporate and charter world.


And yes, I have been fortunate to be offered several jobs at both airlines and in the charter/corporate arena. But I didn't accept them all. I took the ones that moved me one step up the ladder and passed the leads on the ones I turned down to others I knew looking for work.

Ok English,

I really shouldn't have posted that. I don't know anything about you, except that you get a little hysterical when someone points out the truth about affirmitative action.

You started it by saying that I'm no fun to fly with (I don't think you know me either), if you can dish it out, then..................

Me not qualified to fly with you? I don't know, what do you fly? I have flow bug smashers, corporate jets, turbo props, RJ's and heavy jets. They all work basically the same way.

Well at least we have one thing in common, we both resigned from Eagle (me way back in 1985). I couldn't make it in DFW on $15,000 per year and really didn't like the way they treated us, so I went back to flying freight and doubled my salary. Probably the best career decision I ever made.

 

[iluvnascar]

I guess this post of mine has sounded pretty politically uncorrect and I did not mean to insite a battle about the merits of female pilots. All I was asking about was whether or not the market has changed since there seem to be more women entering the flying profession and whether airlines are still hiring them proactivly.
My opinion on the whole matter is that if the ratio of female pilots is increasing that there should not be affirmative action of hiring them over others.
Sorry if this became a bickering match on the skills of females versus males as pilots!
Does anyone actually have something to add about the hiring practices in the future job market?

 

[Lequip]

With USAir and United having thousands and thousands on furlough with no recovery in sight, women and minority pilots looking for jobs now are a dime a dozen. Mabye job seeking white males are now the minority due to all the furloughs at USAir and United.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>It's a non-sequitur (that means you made a statement and then made another statement and/or gave an example that says the exact opposite).<<<

Careful, Lear, you're pigeonholing the concept of the non sequitur in only one of its' uses, and exaggerating it too. It doesn't just mean that your second or follow-on statement or premise is the OPPOSITE of your original, it really means the premises are inconsistent with each other... or that the second statement has no relevance or is unrelated to the earlier statements... Kind of like an illogical conclusion, in that it the inference is "coming out of left field" is what we usually think of as a non sequitur. Another common one is the whole 'if a then b' problem, such as:

"Staring at the computer screen while typing on flightinfo can hurt your vision. My vision is getting worse. Therefore, my vision is getting worse because I am staring at the computer screen typing on flightinfo."

There is no way to prove this logically (the cause could be age, disease, heredity or whatever), and thus... It's a non sequitur.

Another example, the out of left field kind (and one you might hear on overnight conspiracy-theory radio):

"When I flip the switch on the wall, the light in my kitchen goes on. Therefore, the 'light bulb' must be populated by magic pixies who rub sticks together to make the light".

A little over the top, to be sure, but an example nonetheless.

Non sequiturs abound, especially on public message boards. Let's give them all the credit they deserve.

 

[English]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Ok English,


You started it by saying that I'm no fun to fly with (I don't think you know me either), if you can dish it out, then..................

Me not qualified to fly with you? I don't know, what do you fly? I have flow bug smashers, corporate jets, turbo props, RJ's and heavy jets. They all work basically the same way.

Um...when and where did I say you were no fun to fly with? That was not me. Other people on this board think you are no fun to fly with. I will never have to fly with you, so I don't have an opinion about it. I believe it was a different female pilot that said that about you. See, there you go stereotyping and grouping us all together again. I guess us girls are just all interchangeable, because we are all alike, eh?

And when did I say you were unqualified to fly with me? Eagle-ista said that about you, but not me. So stop trying to start a fight and get over your dislike of women. Are you still in high school or something?

 

[sleepy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Um...when and where did I say you were no fun to fly with? That was not me. Other people on this board think you are no fun to fly with. I will never have to fly with you, so I don't have an opinion about it. I believe it was a different female pilot that said that about you. See, there you go stereotyping and grouping us all together again. I guess us girls are just all interchangeable, because we are all alike, eh?

And when did I say you were unqualified to fly with me? Eagle-ista said that about you, but not me. So stop trying to start a fight and get over your dislike of women. Are you still in high school or something?

You try to be nice to them, and this is what you get.

English it must be pretty hard to fly with that big chip on your shoulder. That's ok honey, I'm sure they don't let you fly without a man in the cockpit to keep you out of trouble.

Never have to fly with me? Never say never in this business.

Also, when will you finally admit that affirimative action is just plane wrong! You must know that this is true?

And in deference to the thread starter. I believe that there will always be affirimative action quotas in this business. They are never in writing. They are whispered in the ears of the interviewers by the HR people, "We need some diversity in this next newhire class".

 

[English]

Again, please stop quoting me. I never said I believed in affirmative action. I've been arguing with you for two weeks over your apparent hatred of women, and your continued blaming of others for your own failures and shortcomings.

 

[cr7driver]

Equality not preference. Hiring should be based on skill alone. Nothing else!

 

[sleepy]

Again, please stop quoting me. I never said I believed in affirmative action. I've been arguing with you for two weeks over your apparent hatred of women, and your continued blaming of others for your own failures and shortcomings.

I like women. What failures and shortcomings are you talking about English? Do you know me? I certainly don't know you (thankfully). You really don't know anything about me.

I never said that affirimative action ever kept me from getting any job that I have interviewed for. I have been offered every job that I ever interviewed for in my whole life. I do believe, however, that my race and gender may have kept me from getting some interviews for jobs that I was highly qualified for.

I remember sitting in an FBO back when I flew a B20 . I probably had 3500 TT at the time, most PIC, ME, Part 135 and a good bit of turbine. I was talking to a female CFI who said she was getting ready for her second interview at United (she failed the first one, but they told her she could come back again). She told me that she had 1200 TT (mostly as a CFI) and some guy on the airport let her fly in the right seat of his single-pilot Cessna Citation. I met all of United's qualifications, had an application of file, and updated it regularly. Now you tell me, was she really more qualified for the job than me?

Nothing against her. I didn't hate her because she was a woman, but I did feel that United's use of affirmative action (and please don't try to tell me that they didn't have such a system) was wrong. It was basically unfair, not just to me, but to all of us.

I am glad that you agree that the best person should get the job, and that race and gender based quotas are wrong.

 

[English]

And in your United story, the best person DID get the job.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

The way I see it: the more female pilots they hire, the better the odds that I'll get to tap some A$$ on a trip....






Bring on the Hatemail..........

 

[Lequip]

What female pilot A$$ would you want to tap? If there looks / body don't do them in than their personality surely does!

 

[House_X]

I guess Condi Rice and Collin Powell were hired because of Affirmative Action. And don't forget the most famous brain surgeon in the world who was on 60 minutes...he was hired because of Affirmative Action as well. As a matter of fact all Female/Minority pilots are hired because of affirmative action. And don't forget the immigrants, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and the handicapped. Also, we should also appeal all the ADA laws...all those people in wheelchairs don't deserve rights...

Jeeeeeeeeeeezuz...another pointless Affirmative Action thread...

You didn't get hired because your a D#CKHE@D.

 

[Lequip]

Look, The people you mentioned like Powell, Rice, The Surgeon.....They all got hired because they are the best at what they do. The difference between them and women/minority pilots is that the pilots simply get hired because they are black or women, NOTHING ELSE!!!

 

[House_X]

Look, The people you mentioned like Powell, Rice, The Surgeon.....They all got hired because they are the best at what they do. The difference between them and women/minority pilots is that the pilots simply get hired because they are black or women, NOTHING ELSE!!!

The first Black Female Captain at United flew C-141 Starlifters and is an Air Force Academy Alumni. I guess she was hired by Affirmative Action.

YOU are not GOD...you have no right to judge other people. You simply point the finger and judge. Since the dawn of civilization, the ills and misfortunes of any society have been blamed on "the minority" of any larger group. How many people in the past have been persecuted, tortured or murdered because of these prejudices? I thought this was the 21st Century?

Every female Captain I've ever flown with has been excellent.

Last time I checked...everyone takes the same @#$%ing check ride to earn their way into the cockpit. Remember that.

 

[aviatrix]

This is ridiculous and Lequip, your comments are even more ridiculous! If you think we're all a bunch of no-skill ugly fatties, well then that's your problem. You obviously dont get out much!
As women in this profession we get a lot of comments from ignorant people. You just have to learn to brush them off!
I just received one the other day in KSNA. A little old man making quite the scene about how women shouldn't fly and how they were trying to break into "their" ranks in WWII!!! I just laughed and asked he and his travel companion if they were serious and walked away!
It's comments like those of Lequip and sleepy's that make organizations such as WIA successful!! I'm not a huge proponent of things like that, but you guys are gonna have to get over yourselves....seriously! It certainly doesn't take testosterone to fly a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** plane! Chicks can push the same goddamm buttons you'all can!

 

[House_X]

This is ridiculous and Lequip, your comments are even more ridiculous! If you think we're all a bunch of no-skill ugly fatties, well then that's your problem. You obviously dont get out much!
As women in this profession we get a lot of comments from ignorant people. You just have to learn to brush them off!
I just received one the other day in KSNA. A little old man making quite the scene about how women shouldn't fly and how they were trying to break into "their" ranks in WWII!!! I just laughed and asked he and his travel companion if they were serious and walked away!
It's comments like those of Lequip and sleepy's that make organizations such as WIA successful!! I'm not a huge proponent of things like that, but you guys are gonna have to get over yourselves....seriously! It certainly doesn't take testosterone to fly a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** plane! Chicks can push the same goddamm buttons you'all can!

Well said..let's end this thread...

 

[Lequip]

Yes, we can all push the same buttons and it is the same check ride but lets see to it that the most qualified pilots get into the cockpits. There are some deserving black and women pilots who make it to the dance. The sad thing is that for every story like the USAF Black United captain that you mentioned, there are hundreds that get ahead of more qualified white males just because they are women or minority. Sad but True and you know it! Perhaps your just pissed because your United/USAir Gravy Train ain't rolling around anymore!! I'm sure you miss your silver spoon. Have fun paying your dues.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Most annoying FO I've flown with. I asked her how she arrived at the max t/O weight for this flight. Told me add the landing limit for our DEPARTURE airport plus fuel burn. Had to be convinced otherwise. WTF. Needed a cheat sheet to figure out a max. Couldn't land the thing. And had the gall to tell me she was a "company person". That pilots "were just bus drivers". Then, after TO, in the middle of flap retraction sequence, checked in with ATC, and we were told of a reroute when ready to copy. She said, ready to copy. Meanwhile I'm calling for the flaps to 0, and the after takeoff check which she suspended to copy down the reroute. I can't stand crummy FOs. Girls aren't good pilots, and they know it. That's why it's important for them to be unique, different and make it a point when making PA's that they are " "from the FLIGHT DECK." WIA, first female african american, blah, blah, blah. Who gives a sh1t.

 

[Bluto]

Oakum boy, you are pathetic. I feel truly sorry for you if your ego is so damaged that you have to rely on something as arbitrary as your sex to put yourself above others. Hey, way to go, you're male!! Good for you! Tool. By the way, my wife could probably fly circles around your sorry, redneck, a$$. Later.

 

[House_X]

Most annoying FO I've flown with. I asked her how she arrived at the max t/O weight for this flight. Told me add the landing limit for our DEPARTURE airport plus fuel burn. Had to be convinced otherwise. WTF. Needed a cheat sheet to figure out a max. Couldn't land the thing. And had the gall to tell me she was a "company person". That pilots "were just bus drivers". Then, after TO, in the middle of flap retraction sequence, checked in with ATC, and we were told of a reroute when ready to copy. She said, ready to copy. Meanwhile I'm calling for the flaps to 0, and the after takeoff check which she suspended to copy down the reroute. I can't stand crummy FOs. Girls aren't good pilots, and they know it. That's why it's important for them to be unique, different and make it a point when making PA's that they are " "from the FLIGHT DECK." WIA, first female african american, blah, blah, blah. Who gives a sh1t.

Boy, I bet your Mother would be proud of you talking about females in such a degrading manner. WTF? "Girls aren't good pilots"...jeezuz...any other comments?

What did you send your Mother for Mother's Day? Oh, I forgot, you were an abused child...

This has got to be flamebait...let's shut this thread down!!!

 

[captainv]

>This has got to be flamebait...let's shut this thread down!!!

nah, let them post. i enjoy trying to follow the logic. one bad trip with a female FO = "girls aren't good pilots."

if i were to make broad assumptions and apply them to an entire group, i think i'd have to stop flying with senior white guys, not women and minorities...

 

[sleepy]

This is ridiculous and Lequip, your comments are even more ridiculous! If you think we're all a bunch of no-skill ugly fatties, well then that's your problem. You obviously dont get out much!
As women in this profession we get a lot of comments from ignorant people. You just have to learn to brush them off!
I just received one the other day in KSNA. A little old man making quite the scene about how women shouldn't fly and how they were trying to break into "their" ranks in WWII!!! I just laughed and asked he and his travel companion if they were serious and walked away!
It's comments like those of Lequip and sleepy's that make organizations such as WIA successful!! I'm not a huge proponent of things like that, but you guys are gonna have to get over yourselves....seriously! It certainly doesn't take testosterone to fly a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** plane! Chicks can push the same goddamm buttons you'all can!

Easy there Aviatrix, do not lump my comments in with Lequip. I don't agree with his comments about female pilots skills and abilities.

What I have said, and will continue to say is that affirimative action is just not right. It only harms female pilots when there is a perception (and it is also reality for many of them) that they got their jobs at major airlines through affirimative action policies that allowed them to be hired with less qualifications than male pilots.

Do you support the hiring of less qualified pilots based on race and gender? Do you believe that women and minorities should pay their dues in this business just like us white boys?

 

[350DRIVER]

sleepy,

I agree... It is more than a tad sad that these hiring practices are in place. Fortunately when we look in the mirror every morning we know we have earned our position without having to take the "shortcuts". I have met a few who were hired due to what gender they were versus total time and experience, fortunately this is a numbers game and the numbers will always be in our favor no matter what.



3 5 0

 

[Lear70]

Careful, Lear, you're pigeonholing the concept of the non sequitur in only one of its' uses, and exaggerating it too.

Busted...

Pretty cool... I don't find too many people on this board who can have a discussion on words like these! Usually I prefer just to throw flamebait back at someone with enough verbiage to keep them looking in a thesaurus for a couple hours if they really want to get into a verbal battle... Remind me not to get into one with you - don't want to have to work that hard with my time off.

Originally posted by English:
And in your United story, the best person DID get the job.

Oh please... That's exactly the kind of disparity I'm referring to: the mere interview selection of a 1,200 hour pilot when there were thousands of 5,000++ hour pilots available during the last UAL hiring spree.

If the gender or ethnic origin of an individual wasn't available to a recruiter from the application or application addendums, I'd be willing to bet some serious cash that the 1,200 hour pilot wouldn't even have made it to a United interview the first time...

 

[Otto Coarsen]

The way I see it: the more female pilots they hire, the better the odds that I'll get to tap some A$$ on a trip....

What's the matter lear, my comments not intellectually stimulating enough for you?

 

[Lear70]

A$s on a trip? Stimulating? Hmmm... guess it would depend on the F/A...

Wait a second,,, wasn't there a thread a couple weeks ago about which regional has the best looking flight attendants?

Pilots are about the only group of guys I know that would rather go to a bar filled with gorgeous girls and talk about airplanes instead of working on taking some back to their hotel room...

 

[Otto Coarsen]

working on taking some back to their hotel room.

That's the beauty of F/As.... It doesn't require too much work....

Reminds me of the saying: "Why do pilots sleep with F/As? Because they're too lazy to m@sturbate"

 

[Freightdog75]

The sad truth is that affirmative action is not limited to the aviation community. I've had sereral situations that a minority/woman has been hired over a close friend of mine(firefighter in MKE). TERRIBLE. The best qualified for the position should get the job!!!! I am not sexist or racist therefore I could care less about what color your skin or what hangs between your legs(or not). Best quaified gets the job.

By the way........Never lost a job to this situation......however the mere thought of loosing it to a less qualifed individual just chaps my @ss!!

FD75