All Female crew

[Captain Morgan]

Now... That's funny!

 

[English]

Hey Sleepy,

What's the matter? Feeling a little threatened?

 

[Eagle-ista]

Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

I see you have met English.

Sleepy,

I have no idea who you are or your background, but I do know English.

You chose the wrong pilot to get into a battle of wits. Having read your previous posts, it's obvious to me that you are unqualified to even get on an airplane that English is flying. If you read the things English has posted, or if you have been fortunate enough to share a flight deck with her, as I have, you'd know that her being a woman is irrelevant and that she is an incredible pilot, not just a woman pilot, but a pilot.

If you are looking for reasons why it's tough to get a job or some other angry white male shortcomming, stop looking at others as the problem. It could be closer than you think, or do you have a problem with "Post Self-Realization Depression?" Far too many posters on here think they have the right to be "Politically Incorrect" online and spew this crap where they blame someone (woman, black, latino, irish, german or whatever was this weeks topic on Rush Limbaugh..) for taking their job, when they never even applied.

Times have been tough all over this industry. I have been trying to get out of Eagle for years now but I find my self shackled by the "Golden Handcuffs" where I've been living paycheck to paycheck for so long that I can't afford to leave. Not only did English have the guts to quit Eagle, she has been hired at at least 3 other airlines and 4 corporate operators that I know of, while most pilots can't get an answer to their resumes.

If you really think you have been victimized by your gender, get over it. Most women have it tough enough out there with-out fools like you bagging on them with no knowledge of who they are or the dues they have paid.

If you were smart, and you can try this approach in the future, when you meet someone that is as good at getting work in the aviation industry, as English is, try networking with them instead of dumping on them. Who knows, you might get to a better job because of some woman that you met online that didn't think you were too much of a loser, filling out ID-ten-T forms to worry about losing face with her Chief Pilot by recommending you.

 

[350DRIVER]

Ratings: ATP, CFI, MEI, CFII, BA-4100, LR-JET

6000TT+..

He is not qualified huh?


Just when I think I have read some stupid things..


3 5 0

 

[TonyC]

Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

... her being a woman is irrelevant and that she is an incredible pilot, not just a woman pilot, but a pilot.

...

Not only did English have the guts to quit Eagle, she has been hired at at least 3 other airlines and 4 corporate operators that I know of, while most pilots can't get an answer to their resumes.

Please take no offense to my remarks... I don't know English from Adam (or Eve)


I'm trying to remember where on my resume I would have put "Incredible Pilot". I know I put hours and prior employment on there. I put ratings, and I did say something about Excellent Health, but I for the life of me can't recall where I put the "Incredible Pilot" remark. I'll bet the "most pilots" that "can't get an answer to [their] resumes" just forgot to put down "Incredible Pilot" on their resumes, huh?

I am NOT saying either gender is better or worse - - I will NOT get into that discussion. I live with too many females and value my life too much to even sugggest a difference, much less a superiority. Nevertheless, I contend that a woman does have an advantage in the hiring process. No sour grapes here, as I am exactly where I want to be. It took me a bit longer than I would have preferred, but that's water under the proverbial bridge. I do wonder, though, if my resume would have carried more weight if my name had been Toni instead of Tony. (Now, I DO recall putting my name on the resume.)

Just thinkin' out loud...


(By the way - - 4 airlines and 4 corporate gigs after Eagle?? Is that normal? I honestly don't know, so correct me but don't flame me - - at first blush it looks like the person either can't keep a job or can't make up their mind. Or did I misinterpret your remark about her employment record?)

 

[Lear70]

Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Not only did English have the guts to quit Eagle, she has been hired at at least 3 other airlines and 4 corporate operators that I know of, while most pilots can't get an answer to their resumes.

If you really think you have been victimized by your gender, get over it. Most women have it tough enough out there with-out fools like you bagging on them with no knowledge of who they are or the dues they have paid.

Well,,, to begin, those two paragraphs are in direct conflict with each other. On the one hand, you talk about how "tough" it is for women, while on the other hand you brag about how many job offers she has gotten? It's one or the other, pick one and move on.

Secondly, she didn't quit Eagle - she was furloughed, found a better job while she was on the street, and chose not to go back, or at least that's what she has posted in the past. That doesn't take "guts", it's called picking the better career path for her at the time. That's not wrong, by any means, but don't paint a prettier picture than what's really there.

Thirdly, I don't bash anyone, male, female, or skin color, but don't pull the "gender card" here, no one really gives a sh*t, just fly the airplane and go home! If you're still in this for the ability to say, "I fly a 747!" (or whatever other airplane floats your boat), then you really haven't been here long enough to realize it's all about the money you take home and how much you get to be there instead of being at work!

Cheers!

 

[350DRIVER]

You are always going to have one or two on a feminine kick like Eagle-ista, it never fails. The funny part was he actually went after someone who had the credentials/experience to speak. I don't care how hard they have it. If you want something badly enough then go after it and don't whine and b!tch about it in the process. You gotta luv how some will try and use gender to their advantage and scream bloody murder when things so south for them.

3 5 0

 

[English]

Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Secondly, she didn't quit Eagle - she was furloughed, found a better job while she was on the street, and chose not to go back, or at least that's what she has posted in the past. That doesn't take "guts", it's called picking the better career path for her at the time. That's not wrong, by any means, but don't paint a prettier picture than what's really there.

Nope, I never posted I was furloughed from Eagle. I RESIGNED from Eagle. Anyone here on this board from Eagle that knows me knows what I did. I quit Eagle to take a captain "off the street" position on a Saab 340 with Colgan. I was furloughed from Colgan after 9/11. That's how I unintentionally got into the corporate and charter world.


And yes, I have been fortunate to be offered several jobs at both airlines and in the charter/corporate arena. But I didn't accept them all. I took the ones that moved me one step up the ladder and passed the leads on the ones I turned down to others I knew looking for work.

 

[Eagle-ista]

You are always going to have one or two on a feminine kick like Eagle-ista, it never fails. The funny part was he actually went after someone who had the credentials/experience to speak.
3 5 0

Feminine kick? What does that mean?

I looked at his qualifications and he is in the same ballpark as I am. That doesn't grant him instant access to the Bill Murray "Total Conciousness" Club. I've flown with plenty of pilots that had tons of hours and even more chips on their shoulders.

Lear,
The paragraphs are not contradictory. Your information is flawed, however.

TonyC,
If you fly with her, you'll understand. English is the kind of pilot you hope you get paired with in the sim for your upgrade training. Incredible is not a word I use to desribe many pilots, (notice the lack of gender designation) I don't give compliments that easily.

I do agree that the whole introduction of the female thing is truly beneath us all. It's just an excuse we all use when we can't get the job we've been chasing. It's too easy to blame it on someone that isn't as qualified as "I am" or "got in through a back door."

There are plenty of people on this board that have been helped by English and her networking ability. If you got off the sex hang up and just dealt with her as a pilot, as I'm sure she would prefer, Imagine... just imagine (all the people, living life in peace...)

 

[Vortilon]

This thread is still going? Wow.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,
The paragraphs are not contradictory. Your information is flawed, however.

Originally posted by English
And yes, I have been fortunate to be offered several jobs at both airlines and in the charter/corporate arena. But I didn't accept them all. I took the ones that moved me one step up the ladder and passed the leads on the ones I turned down to others I knew looking for work.

I stand corrected. Threads from a couple days ago blending together where English was talking about Avi8trxx or someone with a similar name having been furloughed from Eagle... my bad.

However, I stand by my assertion that your logic is flawed with two contradictory paragraphs. I think it's great that English has the opportunities she has, but don't go claiming that women have it any tougher than men in this career when you just got through praising how many job offers a woman has received of late... It's a non-sequitur (that means you made a statement and then made another statement and/or gave an example that says the exact opposite).

Originally posted by Eagle-ista
I do agree that the whole introduction of the female thing is truly beneath us all. It's just an excuse we all use when we can't get the job we've been chasing. It's too easy to blame it on someone that isn't as qualified as "I am" or "got in through a back door."

Easy to place blame? Absolutely, when in many cases (notice I didn't say ALL) the qualifications are so rediculously disparate that it's obvious to even the most aviation-uninitiated that it was something other than qualifications at work. Where does blame get us? Absolutely nowhere. The Japanese have a cool saying, "Fix the problem, not the blame"; in this instance that means getting out there and working harder to achieve your goals.

Excuses? No, I don't believe in making excuses; they won't help you accomplish a single goal.

Reason to keep working your butt off to get where you want to be? Absolutely! Every time I hear about someone with qualifications so far below the pool of available talent getting an interview somewhere we want to be, it just motivates me to work that much harder, as I know I'll be that much more satisfied with that career goal when I reach it knowing that I didn't get a single shortcut, but achieved it through sheer determination, hard work, and commitment to my aviation goals.

That's why I agree that the introduction of the female / minority / whatever card is beneeth us, as we all make our way through the aviation world in our own ways, and whining about "who has it sooo hard in this aviation world" or "who got there first and wasn't as good/experienced/qualified as me" *sniff* doesn't do anyone a d*mn bit of good.

I need to learn how to stay away from flamebait...

 

[sleepy]

Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Nope, I never posted I was furloughed from Eagle. I RESIGNED from Eagle. Anyone here on this board from Eagle that knows me knows what I did. I quit Eagle to take a captain "off the street" position on a Saab 340 with Colgan. I was furloughed from Colgan after 9/11. That's how I unintentionally got into the corporate and charter world.


And yes, I have been fortunate to be offered several jobs at both airlines and in the charter/corporate arena. But I didn't accept them all. I took the ones that moved me one step up the ladder and passed the leads on the ones I turned down to others I knew looking for work.

Ok English,

I really shouldn't have posted that. I don't know anything about you, except that you get a little hysterical when someone points out the truth about affirmitative action.

You started it by saying that I'm no fun to fly with (I don't think you know me either), if you can dish it out, then..................

Me not qualified to fly with you? I don't know, what do you fly? I have flow bug smashers, corporate jets, turbo props, RJ's and heavy jets. They all work basically the same way.

Well at least we have one thing in common, we both resigned from Eagle (me way back in 1985). I couldn't make it in DFW on $15,000 per year and really didn't like the way they treated us, so I went back to flying freight and doubled my salary. Probably the best career decision I ever made.

 

[iluvnascar]

I guess this post of mine has sounded pretty politically uncorrect and I did not mean to insite a battle about the merits of female pilots. All I was asking about was whether or not the market has changed since there seem to be more women entering the flying profession and whether airlines are still hiring them proactivly.
My opinion on the whole matter is that if the ratio of female pilots is increasing that there should not be affirmative action of hiring them over others.
Sorry if this became a bickering match on the skills of females versus males as pilots!
Does anyone actually have something to add about the hiring practices in the future job market?

 

[Lequip]

With USAir and United having thousands and thousands on furlough with no recovery in sight, women and minority pilots looking for jobs now are a dime a dozen. Mabye job seeking white males are now the minority due to all the furloughs at USAir and United.

 

[I.P. Freley]

>>>It's a non-sequitur (that means you made a statement and then made another statement and/or gave an example that says the exact opposite).<<<

Careful, Lear, you're pigeonholing the concept of the non sequitur in only one of its' uses, and exaggerating it too. It doesn't just mean that your second or follow-on statement or premise is the OPPOSITE of your original, it really means the premises are inconsistent with each other... or that the second statement has no relevance or is unrelated to the earlier statements... Kind of like an illogical conclusion, in that it the inference is "coming out of left field" is what we usually think of as a non sequitur. Another common one is the whole 'if a then b' problem, such as:

"Staring at the computer screen while typing on flightinfo can hurt your vision. My vision is getting worse. Therefore, my vision is getting worse because I am staring at the computer screen typing on flightinfo."

There is no way to prove this logically (the cause could be age, disease, heredity or whatever), and thus... It's a non sequitur.

Another example, the out of left field kind (and one you might hear on overnight conspiracy-theory radio):

"When I flip the switch on the wall, the light in my kitchen goes on. Therefore, the 'light bulb' must be populated by magic pixies who rub sticks together to make the light".

A little over the top, to be sure, but an example nonetheless.

Non sequiturs abound, especially on public message boards. Let's give them all the credit they deserve.

 

[English]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Ok English,


You started it by saying that I'm no fun to fly with (I don't think you know me either), if you can dish it out, then..................

Me not qualified to fly with you? I don't know, what do you fly? I have flow bug smashers, corporate jets, turbo props, RJ's and heavy jets. They all work basically the same way.

Um...when and where did I say you were no fun to fly with? That was not me. Other people on this board think you are no fun to fly with. I will never have to fly with you, so I don't have an opinion about it. I believe it was a different female pilot that said that about you. See, there you go stereotyping and grouping us all together again. I guess us girls are just all interchangeable, because we are all alike, eh?

And when did I say you were unqualified to fly with me? Eagle-ista said that about you, but not me. So stop trying to start a fight and get over your dislike of women. Are you still in high school or something?

 

[sleepy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Automaticaly Qualified as an Idiot

Um...when and where did I say you were no fun to fly with? That was not me. Other people on this board think you are no fun to fly with. I will never have to fly with you, so I don't have an opinion about it. I believe it was a different female pilot that said that about you. See, there you go stereotyping and grouping us all together again. I guess us girls are just all interchangeable, because we are all alike, eh?

And when did I say you were unqualified to fly with me? Eagle-ista said that about you, but not me. So stop trying to start a fight and get over your dislike of women. Are you still in high school or something?

You try to be nice to them, and this is what you get.

English it must be pretty hard to fly with that big chip on your shoulder. That's ok honey, I'm sure they don't let you fly without a man in the cockpit to keep you out of trouble.

Never have to fly with me? Never say never in this business.

Also, when will you finally admit that affirimative action is just plane wrong! You must know that this is true?

And in deference to the thread starter. I believe that there will always be affirimative action quotas in this business. They are never in writing. They are whispered in the ears of the interviewers by the HR people, "We need some diversity in this next newhire class".

 

[English]

Again, please stop quoting me. I never said I believed in affirmative action. I've been arguing with you for two weeks over your apparent hatred of women, and your continued blaming of others for your own failures and shortcomings.

 

[cr7driver]

Equality not preference. Hiring should be based on skill alone. Nothing else!

 

[sleepy]

Again, please stop quoting me. I never said I believed in affirmative action. I've been arguing with you for two weeks over your apparent hatred of women, and your continued blaming of others for your own failures and shortcomings.

I like women. What failures and shortcomings are you talking about English? Do you know me? I certainly don't know you (thankfully). You really don't know anything about me.

I never said that affirimative action ever kept me from getting any job that I have interviewed for. I have been offered every job that I ever interviewed for in my whole life. I do believe, however, that my race and gender may have kept me from getting some interviews for jobs that I was highly qualified for.

I remember sitting in an FBO back when I flew a B20 . I probably had 3500 TT at the time, most PIC, ME, Part 135 and a good bit of turbine. I was talking to a female CFI who said she was getting ready for her second interview at United (she failed the first one, but they told her she could come back again). She told me that she had 1200 TT (mostly as a CFI) and some guy on the airport let her fly in the right seat of his single-pilot Cessna Citation. I met all of United's qualifications, had an application of file, and updated it regularly. Now you tell me, was she really more qualified for the job than me?

Nothing against her. I didn't hate her because she was a woman, but I did feel that United's use of affirmative action (and please don't try to tell me that they didn't have such a system) was wrong. It was basically unfair, not just to me, but to all of us.

I am glad that you agree that the best person should get the job, and that race and gender based quotas are wrong.