All-ATPs bashing

[cforst513]

Had a 30 day wonder come in for CFI/CFII standardization the other day. She did her CFI, CFII, and MEI in 30 days at All-ATPs. Went full scale on several approaches (including an ILS!!!) and actually had to get re-vectored by ATC at one point on an approach. And apparently they dont' teach the CFII's at ATPs about MDA's b/c she busted way through several of those.

Was it P.T. Barnum that said there's a sucker born every minute? Save your money and go to a real flight school.

 

[Dangerkitty]

Had a 30 day wonder come in for CFI/CFII standardization the other day. She did her CFI, CFII, and MEI in 30 days at All-ATPs. Went full scale on several approaches (including an ILS!!!) and actually had to get re-vectored by ATC at one point on an approach. And apparently they dont' teach the CFII's at ATPs about MDA's b/c she busted way through several of those.

Was it P.T. Barnum that said there's a sucker born every minute? Save your money and go to a real flight school.

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1. It's not called ALL ATPS. It's ATP. Look at the banner on the front page of flightinfo.com. You will see ATP which means Airline Transport Professionals

2. Do they teach VDP's at ATP or the flightschool you fly with? As far as MDA's are concerned maybe she was visual.

3. Maybe if (and this is a big if) she was as bad as you say she is/was do you think that is a reflection of all the students that have gone through the ATP program. One of my best friends is an ATP grad and he is now at Southwest. Do you think I should call SWA and tell them to fire him?

4. Cforst513, you are not an instructor. Is all this heresay or are you just repeating what some mouthy CFI told you?

 

[cforst513]

not quite, little boy. i may not be an instructor, but i'm not an idiot, and i can see through all the crap that spews forth from pilot factories like this joint. i have been around flight schools long enough and have heard (first hand) enough horror stories to find out that places like ATP and DCA are complete and utter rip-offs. that's all. just trying to get the word out that it's best to save your money and stop trying to cut corners by getting 3 very important ratings in just 30 days. you're doing yourself and the aviation community a disservice by doing this.

as for your buddy, good for him. i'm glad to see he's with a decent flying outfilt. the girl that i speak of was fresh out of ATP. there's no reason for her to have zero skills at flight an approach if she's a CFII!!!!

 

[Dangerkitty]

not quite, little boy. i may not be an instructor, but i'm not an idiot, and i can see through all the crap that spews forth from pilot factories like this joint. i have been around flight schools long enough and have heard (first hand) enough horror stories to find out that places like ATP and DCA are complete and utter rip-offs. that's all. just trying to get the word out that it's best to save your money and stop trying to cut corners by getting 3 very important ratings in just 30 days. you're doing yourself and the aviation community a disservice by doing this.

as for your buddy, good for him. i'm glad to see he's with a decent flying outfilt. the girl that i speak of was fresh out of ATP. there's no reason for her to have zero skills at flight an approach if she's a CFII!!!!

Well Cforst you sure are feeling saucy tonight.

Little boy you say? I was soloing airplanes when you were still trying to pee standing up. Not a very nice way to talk to someone with a difference of opinion and about 10 times the amount of aviation experience and knowledge that you have.

Furthermore, I received my Multi Engine rating from ATP in Atlanta back in the early 90's. It didn't seem to upset Continental Express nor American Airlines nor Delta Airlines about where I got my MEL because they all hired me. ATP was far from a rip off then and it's not a way to cut corners now. It's a very time compressed way to knock out three ratings in 30 days. Heck my Lear 60 type and DA-50EX type took less time.

Where did you get your MEL Cforst? Oh, thats right you dont have one.

Again I will ask you where did you get this information on this girl. You were not instructing her so I can only guess that the info is second hand.

I am not saying that she wasn't up to par, but that is like saying that since I flew with a few idiot Captains at AA then they all must be idiots. Quit lumping the skills of one girl to mean that all ATP grads are unqualified.

I have alot more time and experience than you do junior. Dont get into a pissing contest about which schools are good and bad. Short of PFT there are many good and bad ones out there. I think I know the difference between the two. As from what I have seen ATP has always been top notch.

 

[sqwkvfr]

As from what I have seen ATP has always been top notch.

I wish I could say the same.

I've had three CFI applicants come from ATP. I had to teach all of them how to land an Arrow and also had to explain that the Arrow doesn't have anti-feathering pins.

I was simply amazed that any of them had passed their commercial checkrides. They were all full of rote knowledge (provided it pertained to the Seminole) but seriously lacked stick and rudder skills and the ability to apply said rote knowledge to real-world situations.

After dealing with these guys and a few from the likes of Westwind and Pan Am, I'm completely convinced that there is actually a disadvantage to attending most of the local 141 outfits....especially when I learned how much it cost these folks to get their tickets.

 

[Tram]

Of course ATP's is a horrible place to go.. Epic Aviation in Sunny New Smyrna Beach, Florida, would however be your ideal place to pick up a rating..

Although, I heard there was this guy from there who came off like an extreme prick, so.. everyone there must too, be a prick.

Wow sqwkvfr - 600 hours.. Your right at the amount of time where your a complete expert..

You two wonderposters both have less than 1000 hours combined?? You guys should be writing aviation books by now..

 

[Dangerkitty]

Of course ATP's is a horrible place to go.. Epic Aviation in Sunny New Smyrna Beach, Florida, would however be your ideal place to pick up a rating..

Although, I heard there was this guy from there who came off like an extreme prick, so.. everyone there must too, be a prick.

Wow sqwkvfr - 600 hours.. Your right at the amount of time where your a complete expert..

You two wonderposters both have less than 1000 hours combined?? You guys should be writing aviation books by now..

Cut sqwkvfr some slack.

He has flown some incredible aircraft.

Very few people have been able to fly the PA-28R, only to turn around and go all out by flying the PA-28-235. Where he got the balls to do that I will never know.

THEN, this madman goes out and flies a C-177. But not just any C-177. HE FLEW A C-177RG!!!!

But the real kicker is the fact that this God's gift to aviation went out and flew the Commander. A 115TC. Turbo charged airplanes scare the heck out of most people but not this everyday Chuck Yeager.

Oh, yeah and he flew a SR-22. And he didn't even pull the chute!!!!

Tram, we are posting next to aviation GODS!!!!

 

[sqwkvfr]

Wow sqwkvfr - 600 hours.. Your right at the amount of time where your a complete expert..

At least I know when to use "you're" instead of "your."

I stand by what I said....the hardest landing I ever experienced in our Arrow was with an ATP wonderpilot at the controls. Even within my "limited" experience, I could tell that this guy was a terrible pilot. Perhaps if my hours were closer to 10K I'd have seen something that the "600 hour" me missed that would have made me realize what a great pilot this guy that just bounced our Arrow off of the runway really was.

 

[Tram]

Ah yeh, that's right.. I should have held my tounge..

Wow, he got to fly the Sr22? I wonder who let him do that? Insurance on him with his LOFTY flight time would be a mere $10K..

Maybe I can get up with him and get some instruction on the highly cherished art of Arrow handling..


Oouchh.. a grammar nazi.. man, I am sooo toast... I will forever bow in your presence..


*EDIT*
Hahaha.. I just noticed how much of a tool you are.. Did you edge your time or just make up some time? You went from 200 hours to 900 in like.. less than 20 minutes..

 

[sqwkvfr]

this God's gift to aviation

I gotta tell ya....the arrogance demonstrated on this thread is emminating from posts other than mine and cforst's.

If having your experience means that I've gotta act like a pompous jerk, no thanks.

BTW, I think that your reaction is strong evidence that we've touched a nerve. Perhaps this thread isn't the first place you've heard the sentiments expressed about ATP?

We MUST have hit the nail pretty close to the head.