All-ATPs bashing

[gkrangers]

cforst has gotten his Private, Instrument, Commercial all between July and Christmas.

He's practically a fast tracker himself!

 

[Metro752]

Oh, O.K. whatever. Hmmmm.....Let me see if I can remember how they got my email...........................Oh Yeah!! I had been approved for a loan through Key Bank to go through their 90 day career pilot program 3 years ago but backed out at the last minute when it occured to me that if I can get that money so easy I might as well just buy a home while the interest rates were at an all time low and then just sell the home to pay off flight training debt accrued locally or take the profit to pay for training without financing. I've been getting those email for 3 years.

whatever............? it's not my fault you have a less than average grasp of the english language

 

[mcjohn]

since ATP will not solicit something like that, afaik.

It's not the English language that I have a poor grasp on. It is the message board acronyms.
I had to google "afaik" but as far as I know I have it figured out.

Did I slam on your school somewhere along the line? I try not to slam on anyone's school quality etc..... I slam on their marketing practices. It's called false advertising and it is illegal but somehow they've gotten away with it for years. Even Flight Safety lied to a buddy of mine. I really don't have any beef with ATPs because they are a rating mill and they don't hide it. They want all your money up front and then it's up to the student. Not much individual attention and everyone's treated the same. ATP is great for some but horrible for others.

 

[Metro752]

no you have not slammed any school I attended

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

In the past I have administered many tests for ATP's as an examiner. If the students prepare they pass but too many come their with an attitude that the program in someway has a prearranged outcome. Of course those students get an awakening via a "pink slip." So I can say that the ones that do pass must earn their certificates just other pilots do everywhere else. The FAA standards are the same nationwide.

Since the school is a Part 61 program there is no FAA examining authority. At ATP's the students do meet FAA standards when they are certificed.

 

[jergar999]

I went to ATPs back in 2000. I think the attitude of the student, followed very closely by that of the instructor make all the difference. I had a pleasant experience there, but find it unfortunate that they have started participating in so many of these "get there first" programs. I think that for some students ATP is to flight schools what the King videos are to test prep; what you need to know to get passed and only that. At least that wasn't my experience, or the experience of several folks I know who have gone through.

 

[whatfuelpolicy]

Hey, I have an idea, lets change it up a little bit....

I can piss farther and screw harder than you guys because I went to Jimbob Johnsons Flight Academy for Midgets!

Holy Freakin Monkey Balls...Startin to sound like airliners.net in here.

 

[Tram]

I flew with a JJFAM guy the other day.. boy, he couldn't land a 172 to save his life..

 

[Wang Chung]

I went to Jimbob Johnsons Flight Academy for Midgets!

Couldn't make it into that school. They said I was too tall and they wouldn't enroll me.

Too bad, Jimbob Johnson runs a good school from what I hear.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

Couldn't make it into that school. They said I was too tall and they wouldn't enroll me.

Too bad, Jimbob Johnson runs a good school from what I hear.

Dude, you flew a Tahoma Convair 240 and made it out alive!!!!

There isn't a flight school around that can teach you anything more about flying

Flying for that outfit gets you a PHd in aviation knowledge

 

[PDH]

Having been a $39K customer of ATP, I must say I was impressed and disappointed at the same time. ATP is not for everybody. Some can drink from a fire hose and some can not. The quality of the student that ATP turns out, in my opinion, varies significantly with the instructor and the amount of time a student spends with that instructor. It's unfortunate, however, that most of the instructors teach to a specific examiner and his gouge. In many ATP locations, the student can just about quote the entire profile that they will fly for the checkride the next day. Is this cheating? I don't know. All I know is ATP and their procedures. They use designated examiners in South Florida for a lot of their initial CFI rides rather than using examiners from the FSDO. Not sure how this works, but it works for them. My biggest complaint is that some of these 90 day "wonders" that become instructors are impatiently waiting for that phone call from CoEx and never really develop an in depth knowledge (beyond understanding) of their chosen trade. They can be terribly unhelpful most of the time to the students. Even though these instructors complete a rigorous standardization process, I do not know that it carries though to the other locations beyond Jacksonville, Florida. If the instructor sucks, the student will not develop the skills appropriately. Being a little older and more mature, I realize that I am no Chuck Yeager unlike some of the guys coming out of there and I work really hard to rid myself of some bad habits that I do not think I would have developed in a slower paced environment. There are some really sharp guys coming out of there, some real jerks and know-it-alls, and a lot of guys like me that realize it will take a couple hundred hours of instructing before I consider myself to be extremely proficient.

 

[PDH]

I think that for some students ATP is to flight schools what the King videos are to test prep; what you need to know to get passed and only that. At least that wasn't my experience, or the experience of several folks I know who have gone through.

Nicely put, however, more and more know just enough to pass.

 

[mcjohn]

If they're not breaking planes and causing problems in the work place then I guess ATP did a decent job with them. 90 days to know it all self proclaimed badass? It's possible. Remeber they have to have the 80 hours PPL requirement knocked out.

In my opinion, they were total chodes when they interviewed me for that 90 course. By far, the biggest waste of $100 I've ever made! The instructor reminded me of a college freshman in the middle joining a frat. When I started interviewing him and asking about his background all he could talk about was how much he hated his instructor at ERAU so he came to ATP.

I was like, "Give me my $100 back!"

 

[The_Russian]

The instructor is not a teacher, but a mentor or a guide. The student makes the student, not the instructor.

 

[Tram]

In my opinion, they were total chodes when they interviewed me for that 90 course. By far, the biggest waste of $100 I've ever made!

Ok, just curious.. Did you get "accepted" or "denied." Annddd.. Do you still not know what a yaw damper is?

 

[mcjohn]

Ok, just curious.. Did you get "accepted" or "denied." Annddd.. Do you still not know what a yaw damper is?

No, I didn't know what a yaw damper was. Thanks. I read the whole thing. Regarding ATPs 90 day course: I was accepted of course. They called 2 or 3 times to tell me. I came VERY close to complaining to who ever was in charge but I figured bad karma would get me. They don't really interview you like it's a job. They teach a mini class on critical engine and ask a couple questions. It was the dumbest thing. I guess they want to make sure you're not retarded or something but I walked away very sure that the dude interviewing me was. He was a total slob. Had his beat up frat hat on, cut the heals off the back of his running shoes so they were slip ons, Wasn't in "the shirt" they supposedly wear and what he was wearing was untucked. I was embarresed. I dressed nicely as the website said to do.

 

[Tram]

Yeh, I was an instructor at ATP..

The interview is to weed out eh.. the OBVIOUS people who won't ever make it in the aviation field.. I.E. guys with 52 piercings in their nose, etc..

We also give the quick critical engine thing to see if "comprehension ablilities" to see if you can be shown something and grasp it fairly quickly and regurgitate what you've been shown..

The system they have sorta sucks, I remember we all hated giving interviews.. We were not paid for it, we usually had flying to get done.. it was just something extra we had to do and had very little time for it.. Basically, for the interview you get whatever instructors "day it was.." we each took a day - to be "office manager." Any fun stuff - interviews, written tests, bank deposits, etc were our duties for our day..

One thing many have said in this thread is extremely true - often times the quality of the student was directly related to the quality of the instructor.. I never did the 90 day career guys.. I only worked with add-on ratings and ATP ratings..

I wore the shirt probably 75/25.. It was tucked probably 75/25.. I don't think that detracted from my ability to instruct though.. The fact you dressed up is good, we had some kids who would show up in shorts and a tee shirt..

 

[whatfuelpolicy]

There use to be an instructor in Riverside that would show up to work in his wetsuit, take his 2 students, fly to Santa Monica, surf all day, and fly back at night. This didn't last very long once "the man in the office" found out. I worked for ATP for 5 years and there were a lot of ass-dart instructors and students that came through during my time there. Tram, you know who I am. ATP was generally pretty good about getting rid of jerk-off instructors when students called to complain about them. Most of the time, the students are made to be afraid to call because these slacker IP's would tell the students that if they called to complain about something, they would have no chance of being hired as an IP. Not true. A lot of the time, it depends on the location you choose to train at that determines the appearance and professionalism of the IP's. The "slack" locations were generally the places far, far away from HQ in JAX. I can honestly say that most of the IP's that ATP hires are good at what they do. Rich Tillery won't sign someone off if he feels that they, in Rich's own words, suck. I have seen many potential IP's at ATP get denied a training center because they cannot pass their standardization check. Those guys get sent home.

It has also been my experience in my 5 year stint at ATP that most of the unsatisfied customers in the 90 day program were usually the students who had bad attitudes and were just all-around pricks, and were/are generally the ones bashing ATP on the forums.

Tram, hows regional life treating you? I heard you were always in a shirt & tie up in ATL. LOL.

BP

 

[Tram]

I've been found out..

It's treating me ok.. I've been here since January and my schedule is 3 on.. 4 off.. Can't beat that.. Well, I mean, I guess you could, but not at this company..

 

[whatfuelpolicy]

I talked to Kessler a couple of nights ago. He was on an overnight here at KDAY. You guys need to jumpseat your asses up here so we can go get some beverages.