All Airline Pilots MUST READ

[enigma]

Guys & Gals,

If you're not familiar with it, this bill is an attempt to circumvent the Railway Labor Act. The legislation would impose “last offer” baseball style binding arbitration on contract negotiations in the airline industry, effectively destroying airline labor’s ability to negotiate a fair contract.

F18, The last time I checked baseball players have done exceptionally well under this system. The arbitrator usually chooses the player over management. A-Rod got 252 mil, from the the same team that made Nolan Ryan the first million dollar player less than twenty years ago. All under the "last offer" system.

regards,
8N

 

[80drvr]

A-Rod's 252 million dollar deal was the result of free agency, not "baseball style arbitration". I'm sure he was blown away when the owner, Hicks, made this offer of his own volition. Binding "baseball style" arbitration is not used to determine anything in the baseball players contract other than the salary of those players in years 2-5 who are not yet eligible for free agency.

If the airlines want to use this to determine the salaries of pilots in years 2-5, then go for it. But to apply it to a whole CBA in a business as complicated as this is nuts.

 

[goldentrout]

CRJ200 and company

The reason pilot's salaries were so high before deregulation was that the airlines were being subsidized by the government.

Now, the airlines have to compete in the free market just like Microsoft, Safeway, Ford, etc.

That's the American way...free market capitalism...no subsidizing of private industry. Businesses fail or succeed based on the demand for their product and their ability to deliver it at a price where the company can turn a profit.

SWA, Jet Blue, Frontier, Air Tran, Fractional ownership and 50/70/90 seat RJs are new tools available to airline managers and entreprenuers. They are, and will revolutionize the air travel industry. This market revolution is happening all around us today as we speak.

1. UAL/DAL/NWA/US Air are parking hundreds of big planes, and buying hundreds or RJs.

2. SWA/Jet Blue/Frontier/Comair/ASA/ACA and other regionals and fractionals are hiring by the thousands...UAL/DAL/NWA/US Air are furloughing by the thousands.

3. Ticket prices are down, and Jet Blue/Frontier/AirTran/SWA are making money at those ticket prices. UAL/DAL/NWA/US Air are losing money by the billions. The product offered buy UAL/DAL/NWA/US Air is not competitive...if it was, the consumers would choose them more often over their competitors.

If you can't see it happening around you...then you and an ostrich must have much in common. (not meant to be an insult, but the metaphor was just too tough to resist).

 

[MetroSheriff]

OMFG!!!!

I just got done reading this thread start to finish. Wow!!! I have met a few know-it-all, pseudo-salty-dog, Ernie K. Gann wannabes in the last few years. But CRJ200FO, hands down wins the prize.

A Gulfsteam whizkid beating on SWA. WOW!

Born in 82 and giving out the history lessons. WOW!

Lecturing everyone on ALPA with how many years of ALPA experience? WOW!

That is one salty ol' dog there guys. Most of this thread is comical. I wonder if he is like this in the cockpit.

I'd MUCH rather spend a month with TurboS7, this CRJ200 dude would drive me NUTS (pun intended, get it???).

Nothing personal CRJ, you are unreal though.

 

[MetroSheriff]

What good service are you referring to? I've never met anyone that has received good service on a SWA flight. The only reason people continue to go to SWA is because they will sell tickets for unreasonably low prices. Don't delude yourself into thinking that people fly on SWA for good service. Explain to me how SWA provides better service than the real majors.

Their employees smile not infrequently. That goes a long way in my book.

There are not many airlines that do much more than huck a bag a peanuts and a demitase of flat soda at you these days anyhow. Service sucks. It's an airline, not a Royal Carribean cruise. The least they can do is smile, thank you for your patronage, and get you to your destination on time. It's more than most of the majors are able do these days.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Actually, Flying the Line was written from an objective viewpoint. It is not one-sided.

Rrrrrriiiiiiiiight!!!! Objective??? ROFLMAO!!!

Don't get me wrong, FTL I and II are both excellent histories of the union and great reads, but they are about as objective as the San Francisco Chronicle.

 

[Jetsnake]

As a fellow fighter pilot...
You should realize this. The Democrat's
(Clinton) cut the military buget by 36%
during his reign.

I ask you, what do you want to carry on your
F-18, Water Ballons.
I doubt your credentials.
Piss and moan all you want about ALPA.
They stink. I fly a CRJ full time and F-16D
for my part time job. And you worry about
trival crap like your post.

Shame on you. I'm sure you sleep good at
night.NOT. And if you do, marry Alec Baldwin.
He may be good for you.

Jetsnake

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

Jetsnake,

I'm not sure what your point was or who you were talking to but I doubt your credentules, or better yet, your credentials.

Any self respecting Viper pilot wouldn't brag about flying the F-16D. The only time it's the better jet is when it's aft CG helps get the nose on in a turning fight. You don't have as much gas and the d@mn seat is a couple inches further forward which hinders comfort. Nobody likes the family wagon except those who aren't qualified to fly the A or C models and just want a ride in a high performance fighter or the flight doc because he has currency requirements. Which are you?

 

[Jetsnake]

I'm not bragging, nor will I.
The point in which I meant, was
to the first post in
which it seemed to very DEMOCRATIC.

By the way, Viper really sounds COOL.

LOBO 21
175th TFS(114th TFG)

Jetsnake

 

[VFR on Top]

LOBO 21
175th TFS(114th TFG)

Jetsnake

I smell a troll.

175th TFS?? 114th TFG?? Not in the last decade, dude--and certainly not in the "USMCR". Sorry, but I just ain't buyin' it. A more likely scenario: you're an ex-enlisted Marine (hence the "USMCR") who used his GI Bill bennies to go to FlightSafety or Comair.

 

[B737G]

JetPilot500, why do you always reference what the average man or average working person is making or what percentage their pay has increased over the years? I do not know what it took you to get where you are but, I can tell you it took me a four year degree in AE, flight instucting in college while gaining seven licenses and ratings two years pilot training with the military three years at ASA and countless physicals, orals and writtens. The average working man in this country does not have a college degree nor does he operate a 50 million dollar piece of equipment on a daily basis. It may sound elitist but, I am not the average working man. I worked my ass off to put myself in a position to avoid being just Average! I too have seen the study saying our pay has not kept up with inflation over the past 30 years but am not sure of the source so I cannot truthfully say. I would hope you have more respect for what you do for a living and not focus on the average person so much as he should in no way dictate our pay.

 

[MetroSheriff]

The average working man in this country does not have a college degree nor does he operate a 50 million dollar piece of equipment on a daily basis.

I wonder how much a giant dockside gantry crane costs. Or a supertanker, or an offshore oil rig. Do they have college degrees, I don't know.

College degrees are a dime a dozen, as are pilots. Supply and demand. More people want to fly for a living than there are jobs available.

It does sound a bit elitest. It really is just a job driving a peice of equipment from A to B.

The issue is not how you view your job or station in life, but the way that management views your job. To them we are nothing more than union labor. Plain and simple. How much school you have or how hard you worked to get where you are at does not change mgts perspective that you are nothing more than a necessary evil. A cost of doing business, one that has an over inflated ego, and costs them too much money.

 

[CRJ200FO]

I wonder how much a giant dockside gantry crane costs. Or a supertanker, or an offshore oil rig. Do they have college degrees, I don't know.

Yes, but a dockside crane operator is not entrusted with the lives of dozens, if not hundreds, of lives. That's what a pilot's job really is. We don't deserve the money because of the job itself, it's because the responsibility we have. With your take of supply and demand, you seem as though you would be willing to work for minimum wage to fly a 50 million dollar aircraft. After all, pilots are "a dime a dozen" you say. It's amazing how little you think of yourself and the position you have.

 

[CRJ200FO]

OMFG!!!!

I just got done reading this thread start to finish. Wow!!! I have met a few know-it-all, pseudo-salty-dog, Ernie K. Gann wannabes in the last few years. But CRJ200FO, hands down wins the prize.

A Gulfsteam whizkid beating on SWA. WOW!

Born in 82 and giving out the history lessons. WOW!

Lecturing everyone on ALPA with how many years of ALPA experience? WOW!

I find it curious that you attack me personally rather than trying to refute anything I said based on facts. Where was I wrong on my historical facts? Where was I wrong about ALPA history? And don't give me your opinions about ALPA, tell me where the facts I stated are in error.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Yes, but a dockside crane operator is not entrusted with the lives of dozens, if not hundreds, of lives. That's what a pilot's job really is. We don't deserve the money because of the job itself, it's because the responsibility we have. With your take of supply and demand, you seem as though you would be willing to work for minimum wage to fly a 50 million dollar aircraft. After all, pilots are "a dime a dozen" you say. It's amazing how little you think of yourself and the position you have.

I didn't say, nor do I think we should work for minimum wage. I think of myself just fine, and I enjoy the job I do. That is not at issue. My point is what MANAGEMENT thinks of us. They think we are a dime a dozen.

If you think I am wrong, go take a look at the stacks of applications every airline has on file. Thousands.

That doesn't even include the carriers that require pilots to pay for their right seat time, like Gulfstream. I wonder what Gulfstream thinks of those guys.

 

[banned username 2]

Yes, but a dockside crane operator is not entrusted with the lives of dozens, if not hundreds, of lives. That's what a pilot's job really is. We don't deserve the money because of the job itself, it's because the responsibility we have.

Using solely that logic a Cruise Ship Captain should then make about 10 times what a 747-400 Captain makes, since he is entrusted with the lives of over 4,000 people (about 2,500 passengers and 1,500 crew)... Oh and a Cruise ship costs a LOT more than a 747-400 too!

But I don't know too many Cruise Ship Captains making $3,200,000.. per year (ten times what a UAL -400 Captain makes) As a matter of fact, the documentary on Cruise Ships said thier Captains make somewhere around $150,000 per year...

Just my $0.02

 

[MetroSheriff]

I find it curious that you attack me personally rather than trying to refute anything I said based on facts. Where was I wrong on my historical facts? Where was I wrong about ALPA history? And don't give me your opinions about ALPA, tell me where the facts I stated are in error.

Your facts are largely correct and your statemnts and opinions are very much on target.

I was just getting a kick out of the delivery. That is all.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Yes, but a dockside crane operator is not entrusted with the lives of dozens, if not hundreds, of lives. That's what a pilot's job really is. We don't deserve the money because of the job itself, it's because the responsibility we have. With your take of supply and demand, you seem as though you would be willing to work for minimum wage to fly a 50 million dollar aircraft. After all, pilots are "a dime a dozen" you say. It's amazing how little you think of yourself and the position you have.

Alrighty then. How about a nuclear power plant technician. How may lives do they hold in there hands and how much do they make?

Perhaps we could discuss an enlisted sailor on board an nuclear sub. He could ruin a lot of folks' day, and he is knocking down about a grand a month. Even the Captain of that sub, or an a/c carrier is making 100,000K MAYBE, and them big ol' boats cost in the BILLIONS.

Catch my drift?

What you think of yourself and your path to the cockpit doesn't matter a tinkers sh1t to management. You are a gear monkey with a seniority number to them, and there are thousands more that want your job. THAT is the mindset that matters to us in our fight to improve and change things in this industry.

 

[CRJ200FO]

Using solely that logic a Cruise Ship Captain should then make about 10 times what a 747-400 Captain makes, since he is entrusted with the lives of over 4,000 people (about 2,500 passengers and 1,500 crew)... Oh and a Cruise ship costs a LOT more than a 747-400 too!

But I don't know too many Cruise Ship Captains making $3,200,000.. per year (ten times what a UAL -400 Captain makes) As a matter of fact, the documentary on Cruise Ships said thier Captains make somewhere around $150,000 per year...

Just my $0.02

I never stated that pay must be proportionate to the number of people carried. A cruise ship captain deserves a decent paycheck also because he does a similar job to what we do. But I never stated that someone deserves a certain number of dollars per person carried. Both jobs carry a lot of responsibility, and both jobs deserve good pay.

 

[MetroSheriff]

BTW,


GREAT THREAD Everyone!!!! I love it when they roll like this.