Alaska returns to Bellingham

[Green Banana]

Never mind, QCrappy beat me to it.....

 

[chperplt]

But trying to argue that Allegiant is something of a powerhouse in the airline industry is rather humorous. Good luck guys.

Who's arguing that? Maybe you're thinking that because Allegiant has been profitable when no other airline besides Southwest has been, or that our stock price has gone from $18 to near $50 in two years. I don't think that makes us a powerhouse at all.. just successful at the moment.

You guys must be afraid of us if you're on here slamming us every day... Most people wouldn't give much of a thought to such a crappy airline like ours..

 

[yellowfever]

If this is right, you guys have some sad pay!




YEAR MD80CPT MD80FO
10 $ 118 $ 59
9 $ 115 $ 59
8 $ 112 $ 59
7 $ 110 $ 59
6 $ 108 $ 59
5 $ 104 $ 59
4 $ 100 $ 57
3 $ 93 $ 55
2 $ 87 $ 53
1 $ 61 $ 41


Monthly guarantee: 70 hours
Reserve guarantee: 70 hours

All hours flown over 81 compensated at 130% of base pay

Next contractual pay raises: Nov 2008, Nov 2009

Minimum days off/mo: line: 11; reserve: 10
Most junior captain hired: Apr 2007 (MD80/LAS)

Per Diem :
$1.00/hr

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

up to 3%

A/B Fund: ​

none

Other: ​

 

[chperplt]

If this is right, you guys have some sad pay!




YEAR MD80CPT MD80FO
10 $ 118 $ 59
9 $ 115 $ 59
8 $ 112 $ 59
7 $ 110 $ 59
6 $ 108 $ 59
5 $ 104 $ 59
4 $ 100 $ 57
3 $ 93 $ 55
2 $ 87 $ 53
1 $ 61 $ 41


Monthly guarantee: 70 hours
Reserve guarantee: 70 hours

All hours flown over 81 compensated at 130% of base pay

Next contractual pay raises: Nov 2008, Nov 2009

Minimum days off/mo: line: 11; reserve: 10
Most junior captain hired: Apr 2007 (MD80/LAS)

Per Diem :
$1.00/hr

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

up to 3%

A/B Fund: ​

none

Other: ​

You can't win the battle on product, so you bring up pilot pay?

How much did Alaska pay their MD80 Captains when the company was 8 years old?

 

[QCappy]

You can't win the battle on product, so you bring up pilot pay?

How much did Alaska pay their MD80 Captains when the company was 8 years old?

Well, let's see......that was 1940 so......I'll have to get back to you on that one.

 

[yellowfever]

You can't win the battle on product, so you bring up pilot pay?

How much did Alaska pay their MD80 Captains when the company was 8 years old?

I think what we make is sad...but you guys are really takin' it from the man!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

If this is right, you guys have some sad pay!




YEAR MD80CPT MD80FO
10 $ 118 $ 59
9 $ 115 $ 59
8 $ 112 $ 59
7 $ 110 $ 59
6 $ 108 $ 59
5 $ 104 $ 59
4 $ 100 $ 57
3 $ 93 $ 55
2 $ 87 $ 53
1 $ 61 $ 41


Monthly guarantee: 70 hours
Reserve guarantee: 70 hours

All hours flown over 81 compensated at 130% of base pay

Next contractual pay raises: Nov 2008, Nov 2009

Minimum days off/mo: line: 11; reserve: 10
Most junior captain hired: Apr 2007 (MD80/LAS)

Per Diem :
$1.00/hr

401K: ​

yes

401k Matching: ​

up to 3%

A/B Fund: ​

none

Other: ​

FAIL!!!

 

[CesnaCaptn]

You can't win the battle on product, so you bring up pilot pay?

I'm sorry. Did you say Alaska doesn't win the battle on product?

Allegiant's product is to get the pax in the door with a cheap ticket price, cram you into a seat with 30" of pitch, and then nickel and dime you for the next few hours.

As far as your incoherent drivel about our pay being the reason we're making money, well I'm not even going to bother since that "theory" has been disproven time after time.

If pilot pay doesn't have much influence on the company making money, why don't you guys join the rest of us at post-bankruptcy-era arbitrated crap wages?

 

[fifinella]

Alaska Challenges Allegiant with Bellingham - Las Vegas Flights

By Brett Snyder | April 9th, 2009 @ 7:42 am


Recently, Allegiant has added some interesting flights from the Pacific Northwest. Most airlines haven’t bothered taking them on, but Alaska seems to be willing to fight them now that they’re building up around their neighborhood. Starting in June, Alaska will go head-to-head with Allegiant on the Bellingham - Las Vegas route with three weekly flights. This will be interesting to watch.
Allegiant really started to pay attention to the Pacific Northwest when it added a base at Bellingham, located in between Seattle and Vancouver. Then earlier this year, they announced they would fly LAX to Medford, a route flown by Alaska’s regional Horizon Air. Just this week, Allegiant announced service between Eugene and Oakland. Alaska is apparently getting nervous.
Beginning June 25, Alaska will fly Bellingham to Vegas in direct competition with Allegiant three times a week. They’ve probably been watching as Allegiant continues to grow its presence on the route. Though Allegiant usually flies routes a couple times a week, this one is currently flown a couple times a day with up to three times daily on peak days. Clearly, there’s a lot of demand.
So Alaska’s timid entry here might not be a bad idea in theory, but it’s going to be an uphill battle. Allegiant is able to keep fares low by charging fees for just about everything. Alaska doesn’t, so it’s going to have trouble getting much revenue here.
Alaska has a good schedule for people going down for the weekend - flying Thursday and Friday, but I’m not sure how the people going down on two days are all going to fit on the one plane coming back on Sunday. Let’s not even talk about the flights going in the other direction those days. Those will be tough to fill.
It’s also important to remember that packaging is how Allegiant makes much of their money. Alaska can offer packages, but it’s not going to be nearly as lucrative for them.
I think this is going to be a tough one for Alaska.


BNET editorial/analysis on Alaska's move into BLI -

 

[Ameriagle]

I found the following post on another message board...thought it was interesting and ironic!

Alaska sells its entire fleet of old beater aircraft for a tiny fraction of the cost of one new plane. Someone buys the old beaters for a song. Then Alaska tries to sell $59 tickets while making payments on 65 million dollar planes flying against their old beaters. Passengers don't care if they are flying a beater or a new plane. No place to figure that out on Expedia.com

53079 2004 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N965AS
53078 1996 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N964AS
53473 2183 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N982AS
53472 2178 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N981AS
53471 2139 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N979AS
53452 2109 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N976AS
53451 2083 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N975AS
53449 2077 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N973AS
53063 1851 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N969AS
53024 1825 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N958AS
53023 1821 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N950AS
53022 1809 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N949AS
53021 1801 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N948AS
53019 1783 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N944AS
53018 1779 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N943AS
53016 1850 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N Allegiant Air Due Planned N968AS
49658 1461 McDonnell Douglas MD-83 N873GA Allegiant Air 22-12-2005 (22-06-2005) Active N946AS

posted by seaav8tor on APC, the fleet info. is taken from planespotters.net.

 

[fifinella]

I think what we make is sad...but you guys are really takin' it from the man!

Words from da man bringin 'em down....

"You may feel some slight discomfort..."

"You might experience some pressure..."

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Sorry guys. But ALK still has huge support from people of the PNW. Allegiant can kiss that route goodbye. Nobody in the NW has ever heard of Allegiant, but they have heard of a little company called Alaska. Allegiatnt cant compete with ALK. Heck, SWA has had a hell of a time competing with Alaska...... And trust me, Allegiant would get KILLED if they tried to go to ANC. Just like everyone else thats tried to compete up there. Just ask Herb.

BTW... chp.. When your company doesn't make profit off pilot wages then feel free to talk smak. Unitl that time. Just keep quiet. ALK will kill you in Bellingham and you guys aren't going to fight that fight. No more layovers at the Holliday Inn Express...

I'm from the northwest, and I agree with you. When it comes to northwest passengers, they will fly Alaska Air over other airilnes with similar prices. It is the only area in the entire country where residents truly support local businesses.

That definitely applies to flights out of PDX and SEA, but what you fail to realize (and it makes all the difference in the world) is that 90% of the passengers out of Bellingham are not from the pacific northwest; they're Canadians. Bellingham and the local area only have about 75,000 residents, but Victoria and Vancouver, BC together have over 2.5 million residents and that is what has been supporting Allegiant's ability to have an entire base in BLI and offer multiple flights per day.

Canadians will happily drive an hour to BLI to avoid the international taxes. The same can't be said about residents of Seattle who can easily fly out of SEA with no extra taxes.

Those Canadians have no loyalty to Alaska Airlines at all. And when Allegiant can offer more flights at lower prices, the Canadians will happily fly on them.

Alaska Air might be able to fill one 737 with northwest pax, but they will not take most business away from ALGT.

 

[chperplt]

I'm sorry. Did you say Alaska doesn't win the battle on product?

Allegiant's product is to get the pax in the door with a cheap ticket price, cram you into a seat with 30" of pitch, and then nickel and dime you for the next few hours.

You obviously haven't been anywhere near one of our airplanes... There's no cramming anyone into a seat. 6 footers don't need the exit row on our birds...

 

[chperplt]

Well, let's see......that was 1940 so......I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Thanks for making my point for me...

 

[Fubijaakr]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suite, is it?

BWAHAHAHA!

Now that I've had my morning chuckle...

Let's go over this one last time.... and we'll do it realllllly slowly this time.

...for YOUR benefit.

Alaska, through Horizon, has been flying out of BLI this entire time... and we're still running full flights each and every day. All those loyal to Alaska Airlines passengers you speak of could have bypassed Allegiant for those miles, but did not.

Probably because YOU were the only game in town offering non-stop service. Well, that's changed now, hasn't it? With Alaska jets offering the same non-stop service, YOUR claim to fame in BLI has evaporated.

Here, let me adjust your spin for you...

So... to recap in case you're confused.

1) Alaska Air has been flying out of BLI this entire time using Horizon Air...

...providing one stop/plane change/carrier change service BLI-SEA-LAS.

2) PNW customers have been getting miles flying out of BLI this entire time...

...but have had to put up with a short hop to SEA before they could continue to LAS. Then they had to transfer from the Horizon plane to the Alaska jet.

3) Allegiant has had full flights this entire time...

...because up until now passengers have been able to avoid the SEA hassle by booking AGT.

4) This loyalty you speak of seems to be loyalty to Allegiant and not Alaska...

...because ONLY AGT has been providing non-stop service. Now that Alaska provides non-stop service to LAS, the AGT advantage has evaporated. As will their passenger base.

I think Alaska is going to be the one whimpering away from this deal...

Time will tell who is going to be "whimpering" and will tuck tail and run like a scalded dog.

 

[Fubijaakr]

How much did Alaska pay their MD80 Captains when the company was 8 years old?

When Alaska was 8 years old, they were flying Ford Trimotors and Lockheed Orion float planes.

Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, eight years AGO we were making $196 an hour. That was until non-Union lowballers like you, B6 and Virgin proved to management they could get airline pilots for $120 (B6), $95 (Virgin) and $110 (YOU) an hour.

Thanks ever so much for lowering the bar.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

When Alaska was 8 years old, they were flying Ford Trimotors and Lockheed Orion float planes.

Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, eight years AGO we were making $196 an hour. That was until non-Union lowballers like you, B6 and Virgin proved to management they could get airline pilots for $120 (B6), $95 (Virgin) and $110 (YOU) an hour.

Thanks ever so much for lowering the bar.

Yep, it's all our fault. Our tiny 280 pilot airline brought down the ENTIRE industry. However, one of your other pilots made it clear that we aren't even close to being significant in this industry. It's so easy to cast down judgement from your Ivory Tower isn't it, Fubijaakr? When was the last time you put out a strike vote to improve your situation or to stop your falling payscale? Did you guys stand up for those 60 "hostages" thrown out for your management's amusement? In short, what in the world does being unionized have to do with anything?

 

[CesnaCaptn]

You obviously haven't been anywhere near one of our airplanes... There's no cramming anyone into a seat. 6 footers don't need the exit row on our birds...

I apologize. You're right. I was using old information.

 

[Ameriagle]

When Alaska was 8 years old, they were flying Ford Trimotors and Lockheed Orion float planes.

Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, eight years AGO we were making $196 an hour. That was until non-Union lowballers like you, B6 and Virgin proved to management they could get airline pilots for $120 (B6), $95 (Virgin) and $110 (YOU) an hour.

Thanks ever so much for lowering the bar.

So, what you are saying is that pilots at AAY, B6, and Virgin voted yes on the last contract at Alaska? Your suggesting that your lack of progress is justified because an airline with 41 airframes has set the bar? A little less blame and a little more responsibility for your career might do you some good...maybe you can be an example to all the bottom feeders as you suggest you are! Anything else and you are just another FI hypocrite!

Two weeks ago, Alaska was offering a BLI sale to any destination served by AAY, with the SEA connection. Now they have decided to add direct service. That make's me think that advanced bookings were lousy and this is a last ditch effort to regain some market presence! Canadian's crossing the border do so because they are looking for a bargin. If they were looking for a brand name they could could fly nonstop to Vegas on West Jet, or Air Canada from YVR. At this point I don't think Alaska is on the offensive, this is purely a defensive move.....time will tell, but I think it's to little to late!

 

[av8instyle]

4 pages?? Really???

 

[chperplt]

Two weeks ago, Alaska was offering a BLI sale to any destination served by AAY, with the SEA connection. Now they have decided to add direct service. That make's me think that advanced bookings were lousy and this is a last ditch effort to regain some market presence! Canadian's crossing the border do so because they are looking for a bargin.

Alaska Airlines says some advance bookings down



Alaska Airlines said Wednesday that advance bookings for April are up, possibly reflecting the later Easter holiday this year, but that bookings for travel in May and June are below 2008 levels.
The company also forecast higher unit costs excluding fuel for the first quarter and all of 2009

Alaska also continues to hedge half of its fuel needs at prices higher than current prices.
The Seattle-based airline said April bookings as a percentage of available seats times miles flown, are running 1 percentage point higher than last year, when Easter fell in March.

But May bookings are down 1.5 percentage points and June bookings are off 5 points from a year ago, Alaska said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.


At its sister carrier, Horizon Air, April bookings are flat as a percentage of available seat miles flown, while May bookings are down 2 points and June bookings are down 4 points.

Last week, Alaska Airlines reported that March traffic fell 8.1 percent compared with a year ago, but that it cut capacity by 9 percent.

As a result, Alaska's average occupancy or load factor in March rose to 81.6 percent from 80.8 percent a year earlier at a time when most U.S. carriers reported lower occupancy.

However, March traffic plunged 20.7 percent at Horizon.

In Wednesday's filing, Alaska said it expects to report that first-quarter capacity fell 9.3 percent and would decline 7 percent for all of 2009.

The airline said its unit costs, or cost per available seat mile excluding fuel and restructuring expenses, rose 11 percent in the first quarter and would rise 8 percent for the full year.

Alaska and Horizon combined have agreements in place to buy half of their fuel supply this year at an average price equal to $76 per gallon of crude oil. The benchmark price for crude was around $51 Wednesday.

Alaska locked in the prices when oil was much more costly.

Shares of parent Alaska Air Group Inc. ( ALK - news - people ) rose 40 cents, or 2.1 percent, to $19.51 in afternoon trading.

 

[Baze]

Alaska and Horizon combined have agreements in place to buy half of their fuel supply this year at an average price equal to $76 per gallon of crude oil. The benchmark price for crude was around $51 Wednesday.

Now, that _is_ some expensive oil.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Yep, it's all our fault. Our tiny 280 pilot airline brought down the ENTIRE industry.

Glad you agree that by working for substandard wages YOU demonstrated how cheaply pilots can be bought.

When was the last time you put out a strike vote to improve your situation or to stop your falling payscale? Did you guys stand up for those 60 "hostages" thrown out for your management's amusement? In short, what in the world does being unionized have to do with anything?

Since you're so obviously ignorant of both the RLA and our status within it you're "questions" cannot be addressed in any rational way. You have obviously made up YOUR mind. Since you're a non-Union "at will" employee, I guess asking you to become familiar with such RLA terms as staus quo and arbitration is too much to ask.

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

From the April 30, 2005 press release after your arbitration:

"We are grateful to the arbitrator for helping us reach a resolution," said Dennis Hamel, Alaska's vice president of employee services. "This allows us to move forward with a competitive wage and benefit package for our pilots and helps us achieve a better cost alignment with other major carriers."

Since we aren't even close to being a major carrier (and was even further away back in 2005), I doubt that your arbitrator had our payscale in front of him while making his decision. United's, maybe?

Anyway, no more back and forth from me. See you in BLI.

 

[Ameriagle]

Glad you agree that by working for substandard wages YOU demonstrated how cheaply pilots can be bought.



Since you're so obviously ignorant of both the RLA and our status within it you're "questions" cannot be addressed in any rational way. You have obviously made up YOUR mind. Since you're a non-Union "at will" employee, I guess asking you to become familiar with such RLA terms as staus quo and arbitration is too much to ask.

Imagine that.....asking Fubijakkr to answer a question that would mean he has to take some responsibility for his own career expectations and he starts playing dumb.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

When Alaska was 8 years old, they were flying Ford Trimotors and Lockheed Orion float planes.

Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, eight years AGO we were making $196 an hour. That was until non-Union lowballers like you, B6 and Virgin proved to management they could get airline pilots for $120 (B6), $95 (Virgin) and $110 (YOU) an hour.

Thanks ever so much for lowering the bar.

That's not true! 8 years ago, Allegiant was a bankrupt charter-only operation with a DC-9. You guys took your HUGE paycuts long before Allegiant was competing with you on scheduled routes. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Typical of so many in this industry.

 

[chperplt]

I love Flight Info... The belly laughs I get from this place. :laugh:

See you guys in BLI and good luck.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Since we aren't even close to being a major carrier (and was even further away back in 2005), I doubt that your arbitrator had our payscale in front of him while making his decision. United's, maybe?

I love how you clowns use the "it wasn't me" defense. Did you ever wonder where United's crappy narrow body pay scale came from?

It was imposed by the bankruptcy court. It was the scale that United management demanded so they could be competitive with the "darling" of the media at the time...non-Union jetBlue.

Then YOU and Virgin came along and undercut even jetBlue.

Well done.

But, I guess its OK because you "had to feed your family."

 

[Ameriagle]

I love how you clowns use the "it wasn't me" defense. Did you ever wonder where United's crappy narrow body pay scale came from?

It was imposed by the bankruptcy court. It was the scale that United management demanded so they could be competitive with the "darling" of the media at the time...non-Union jetBlue.

Then YOU and Virgin came along and undercut even jetBlue.

Well done.

But, I guess its OK because you "had to feed your family."

Way to take some accountability for your current situation. Everybody is to blame but you! When was Alaska in bankrupcy? Is that when the judge allowed the company to gut your contract? It's full pay to the last day at Alaska right? Wrong!

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

No kidding, Mook. At least our guys FINALLY decided to respond to the threat. No more free passes for non-Union contract undercutters.

Oh, and ALPA has done so much. ALPA didn't do sh&t for my airline after I paid $28,000 in dues over 19 years, unless you consider that 5 hour workshop on how to write a resume...ALGT...run very fast away from a Union..especially ALPA