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Alaska pilots - please think twice before you vote!

Ih8AFYesmen

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"I think with one of Capt. Shivers responses he senses this could successfully be sent back outside of mediation and quickly corrected or sweetened. He didn't specifically say that just my sixth sense from one of his answers."

This is straight from our ALPA web board. Though this is just an opinion from one of our pilots who atteneded the first road show, it's an important and a valid point. Have any of you thought the possibility that our own MEC/NC's arms are being twisted by national and/or some outside force to sell this TA? Think really hard on why our guys are trying to sell this devisive TA. Maybe our MEC is trying to tell us something but he can't really come out and say it. It's kinda like the a POWs sending a morse code with eye blinks when they were broadcasted on TV.

I read, re-read the TA and heard the NC/MEC's spill, and I cannot vote for the TA with a clear conscience. Think about the long term effect of this TA for little short term gain.
 

mach none

wishin I was on a boat
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They are not being twisted and you need to put down the glue. They have looked me in the eye and stated this is the best deal we could get. We got EVERYTHING off the table we could.
 

Fubijaakr

Seniority is Forever
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Agreed, mach. So far all I've heard from the "NO" voters is "if, if, if","but, but, but" and a whole bunch of fear mongering.

Big picture time:

"Its the economy, stupid!" Remember that? No labor contract exists within a vacuum. Never decry the value of incrementalism.
 

BeCareful!

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Have any of you thought the possibility that our own MEC/NC's arms are being twisted by national and/or some outside force to sell this TA? .


I have it on good authority (from actual posts here on FlightInfo) that this simply NEVER happens. Each ALPA group is autonomous....period. But don't take my word for it; wait a day or so and Rez or PCL128 will be here to straighten you out. You're probably paranoid or you have an active imagination.
 

Mamma

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Mar 29, 2005
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"I think with one of Capt. Shivers responses he senses this could successfully be sent back outside of mediation and quickly corrected or sweetened. He didn't specifically say that just my sixth sense from one of his answers."

This is straight from our ALPA web board. Though this is just an opinion from one of our pilots who atteneded the first road show, it's an important and a valid point. Have any of you thought the possibility that our own MEC/NC's arms are being twisted by national and/or some outside force to sell this TA? Think really hard on why our guys are trying to sell this devisive TA. Maybe our MEC is trying to tell us something but he can't really come out and say it. It's kinda like the a POWs sending a morse code with eye blinks when they were broadcasted on TV.

I read, re-read the TA and heard the NC/MEC's spill, and I cannot vote for the TA with a clear conscience. Think about the long term effect of this TA for little short term gain.

I was at the road show and I did not get that "sixth sense" feeling at all in regards to Shiver's answers.
 

PCL_128

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I have it on good authority (from actual posts here on FlightInfo) that this simply NEVER happens. Each ALPA group is autonomous....period. But don't take my word for it; wait a day or so and Rez or PCL128 will be here to straighten you out. You're probably paranoid or you have an active imagination.

A day or so? I'm much quicker than that. ;)

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what everyone thinks is so bad about your TA. Seems damned good to me. But whether it's good or bad, it was TA'd by your local leadership, not by National.
 

Mamma

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A day or so? I'm much quicker than that. ;)

I'm still having a hard time figuring out what everyone thinks is so bad about your TA. Seems damned good to me. But whether it's good or bad, it was TA'd by your local leadership, not by National.

There are a few bad things. First, this TA will make things more efficient at the company by allowing pilots to fly more for premium pay. This extra flying will lead to many furloughs. Second, it is the first successful salvo on the A plan. The other options are good "right now" but the company's main intent is to bury the A plan. Who knows what they will do to the other retirement plans down the road. They split the pilot group into three groups to ensure their success. Last, scope language is not good. We have solid scope with Alaska Airlines but really no scope with Alaska Air Group. The company was adamant towards not changing this leading many of us to believe they have something up their sleeve. Who knows, I may be wrong.
 

ImbracableCrunk

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Last, scope language is not good. We have solid scope with Alaska Airlines but really no scope with Alaska Air Group. The company was adamant towards not changing this leading many of us to believe they have something up their sleeve. Who knows, I may be wrong.

To me, this section might as well say, "Can we give your job to a 'regional?'"
 

Mamma

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To me, this section might as well say, "Can we give your job to a 'regional?'"

I agree to a point. They have had the ability to do this for years but have not. I don't think they want to fly/train the arctic or SE Alaska, Hawaii or Mexico using a bunch of new pilots working for some alter ego airline. RNP, weather issues and brand degradation are all things that would be expensive and difficult for the Air Group to outsource. I could see them farming out the GEG, PDX, SFO, SJC, OAK markets though and using our fleet for new markets, Alaska, Mexico and Hawaii. After they do this, they then toss a bunch more of us expensive pilots to the street. "You can apply to "insert alter ego airline here" and you will have preference" Who knows I don't put much past them.
 

SRMairlines

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some
Before you vote it is simple.

Ask yourself:

Can I live with this agreement for 4-6 years?

Does this improve my QOL?

Forget the economy. It stays down 2-3 years then goes up for 6-8. And repeats itself. Everytime we are in a recession the media and so-called experts always compare it to the great depression. This one is exacerbated by politics and the media.

This is your chance to exercise your right to vote whatever way you want to. At the end of May it will either pass or fail and we will have to move on and prepare for 2013.
 

Ih8AFYesmen

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They are not being twisted and you need to put down the glue. They have looked me in the eye and stated this is the best deal we could get. We got EVERYTHING off the table we could.

I guess since they looked you straight in the eye and said so makes everything okay?!?! Listen, if you can't think on your own, I'd put down whatever you are smoking and be honenst with yourself. Did they also tell you that they made a mistake and approached the company with too low of a payscale? Wasn't the December 2008 comprehensive proposal our bottom line and not the starting point? Then, how did it all of a sudden become the starting point in negotiations?
I appreciate our NC for all of their hard work and sweat; I'm not "dissing" them. But, when they are trying soooooo hard to sell this TA, don't you want to know why? Just state the facts and let the membership decide. As much as we want to live in a grey world, EVERYTHING is either wrong or right. Has this pilot group ever stood up to anything? I don't think so.
 

BeCareful!

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To me, this section might as well say, "Can we give your job to a 'regional?'"

Of all the rotten, no good, low down, mean spirited, ignorant things to say in front of God and everyone! ALPA would never.....repeat, NEVER.....allow the outsourcing of your job or allow an airline management to degrade this proud profession of its traditionally good pay and QOL. You take that back, you scoundrel!
 

mach none

wishin I was on a boat
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The furloughs will occur because of the economy this fall...not the TA. All I hear is fear this, fear that and the economy is not that bad. It must be the liberal media conspiracy again.

When I hear people like Warren Buffet say we won't begin to see the turn around for another 18 months. I believe him and not pilots. If we were so smart financially, we wouldn't be flying jets for a living.

Oh, I forgot. This could be a 10 year contract. No, no...4 years. No, no...8 years.

I am voting yes. We need to start clawing ourselves out of the hole. We need to look forward and move on from the past.
 
Last edited:

ImbracableCrunk

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The furloughs will occur because of the economy this fall...not the TA. All I hear is fear this, fear that and the economy is not that bad. It must be the liberal media conspiracy again.

When I hear people like Warren Buffet say we won't begin to see the turn around for another 18 months. I believe him and not pilots. If we were so smart financially, we wouldn't be flying jets for a living.

Oh, I forgot. This could be a 10 year contract. No, no...4 years. No, no...8 years.

I am voting yes. We need to start clawing ourselves out of the whole. We need to look forward and move on from the past.

I'm sick of negotiations, too.

But, in the end, if you don't have scope, your job can go to Republichautamesawest any time.

It's kinda like going through the effort of building a aerobatic plane and not bothering to put a 5-point harness in it. Sure, you may get off the ground, but when things go inverted, you can kiss that plane goodbye.
 

ImbracableCrunk

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"What ifs" is risk management, in a way.

The probability of outsourcing is let's say medium and the severity very high.

I don't like those odds.
 

Old School 737

NG's now and it is A OK!!
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Look at the annual shareholders meeting 10k statement on page 10. It says Labor cost have historically made up to 30 or 40 % of an airlines total operating costs.

Then go to page 18 and it says Labor cost are a significant component of our total expenses, Accounting for approx 25 and 30 % of our total operating expenses in 2008 and 2007 respectively.

Also says. Each of our represented employee groups has a seperate collective bargaining agreement, and could make demands that would increase our operating expenses and adversely affect our financial performance if we agree to them.

Then page 32 says they feel that we are the highest unit costs in the industry for the size of aircraft operated.

Page 38 says they expect wages and benifits to be flat in 2009 but increase on a per-asm basis.

After reading the this it makes me think that they are getting a good deal on employee wages and benifits!!!!!
 

Fubijaakr

Seniority is Forever
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Enough
I agree with mach. All I hear from the naysayers here and on the ALPA webboard is based on fear. And that fear is based on future imponderables.

Read the TA (not the summary and for pity's sake NOT the ALPA webboard), compare the differences with our current contract and make a decision based on how the changes will effect YOU.

In my case, the positives outweigh the negatives. I'm voting YES.
 
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