Alaska Contract Talks Suspended

[FL510GV]

http://www.tribnet.com/business/story/4533873p-4509922c.html

http://www.alpa.org/alpa/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=7260

Looks like bad news for those in the pool... I could be in my current position indefinately.

They actually halted talks at least two weeks ago, but this is the first "official" word that the early concession talks were done and the pilots would wait to re-enter talks in Mar '04 based on the Mar '05 expiration date.

Nothing but rumors from Alaska guys that I fly with at TCM.

Anyone with any real "news"?

i.e. Why suspend the talks and move to full contract talks later? I thought they agreed to enter into full talks early because of the company's request for pay cuts? Do the pilot's as a group still believe that arbitration is a loose situation for pilots, or have they changed their tack? Any hope of starting class before the contract is settled? If not it will be another 18 months.

Thanks.

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[AK737FO]

No news

I have no information to pass along. I am sure that the union will tell us about the negotiation break down in the near future.
This was a "free" chance to sit down and talk. It was our response to the company's insane request of a 23% pay cut. In no way are the pilots of Alaska interested in a 23% pay cut or Mr. Ayers "vision 2010". These talks were just that - free talks to try to find a real solution as to how we can be a strong, profitable airline and survive in this crazy industy. ALPA's position was always that if the company didn't really want to negotiate, didn't really want to accomplish anything - then we will see you in 2005.

The way I see it - 2005 will be a good year. Hopefully the economy and this industry will be on the road to good health.

As to new hires... Part of Mr. Ayers "vision" would create a new (permanent) B scale for all new hires - in the form of eliminating their pension. I for one will NEVER sell out the future, and everyone I have talked to says the same thing. So where does this leave new hires? I doubt they will hire until we get this "vision" killed in 2005. Sorry to say it, but that is my personal opinion. After 2005 there are way to many retirements - they will have to open the school house doors wide, just to keep up.
Merry Christmas to all.

 

[flx757]

Re: No news

So where does this leave new hires? I doubt they will hire until we get this "vision" killed in 2005. Sorry to say it, but that is my personal opinion. After 2005 there are way to many retirements - they will have to open the school house doors wide, just to keep up.
Merry Christmas to all.

For what it's worth, this is pretty much the word around the schoolhouse. We have been working on next year's training, and have been concentrating on CQ, with the possibility of transitions, depending on how the next bid goes, but also expect hiring to resume with some voracity in 2005.

Good luck to those waiting for more in the way of good news, and I'm very glad to see the pilots standing firm on these issues. Now, even though I may techincally be "management" in title only, and am not part of the Alaska ALPA group, I have been a line pilot my entire career, along with my training duties, and will always BE a pilot, no matter what my official capacity is. I will continue to support the pilots each and every day and in any way that I can. Every pilot I talk to has the long term interest of the company at heart, and like AK737FO said, is interested in trying to find a real solution as to how Alaska can be a strong, profitable company for the long haul. This is a great company, and the pilot group is one of the prime reasons why this company is what it is and has been for the past 70 years.

 

[becket]

What are the odds that Alaska is going to threaten to furlough now? In my experience, when mgmnt doesn't get what it wants peacefully they start to throw their weight aroundl. I was hoping that they were going to be much more reasonable than this 23% thing but it appears that they're sticking to their guns.

 

[Rhino]

Bad news

FL510GV,

I guess I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue!!!

 

[FL510GV]

All glue sniffing aside...,

I am really interested in the abitration clause of the agreement... seems most guys think pilots stand to loose more in arbitration due to the "bankrupt" wages that UAL, AA, USAir, etc took.

AK737FO... frankly, I am not that concerned about the "A" fund. I have already lost out on one year of my highest wages (one year in the pool) since I can't work past 60 to make up the difference. I suspect that most guys in my situation would support a loss of the A fund to be working right now... IF there is a reasonable B fund (matching, etc) I would be more inclinded to take my $ up front. All those guys at USA, UAL etc are wishing they could have taken their retirement in matching cash up front.... at least they would have something.

 

[AK737FO]

Complex issue

Retirement is getting to be a complex issue. Will pensions (A-fund) be around 30 years in the future? Who knows... Are we beating a dying horse, trying to save some of the good stuff for ourselves? Maybe... Should we just cave in now, give it up and live with only the 401K (B-fund)? I hope not...

This I know. Using todays pay scale (lets hope we will see it go up in the next 20 to 30 years!), when I retire with about 30 years of service, my A-fund will be worth about 10K a month. I also choose to max out my 401K each year. The company kicks in an extra 3%.

Under Mr Ayers vision 2010 plan, you will get no pension - I will get to keep mine. You will get a 401K, with the company matching 6% (rather than my 3%).

Assuming I make it to 60, when I retire there should be less than 50 of todays pilots still kicking around. At what point in the next 25 years or so will the "B scale" pilots outnumber the "old timers who got the pension"? What do you think these B-scale pilots of the future will do if the company comes to them, say in the year 2024, and says they really, really need to get rid of the old timers pensions? Just a silly hypothetical, but it does show that what we do today can affect the future in many different ways.

FL510GV, I know that you are frustrated, waiting for a class date. It was not all that long ago that I was in your shoes. But I for one will hold the line on this issue - I won't go for a new B-scale, I won't sell out the future. I'm only one voice, there are about 1550 others.
Merry Christmas.

 

[ratherfish]

How ironic? I just got home from a family Christmas party. You know, the kind where everyone asks you "what your route is". After explaining that one away for the millionth time, I'm asked "weren't you going to go work for Alaska?" By the time I explain that one, as briefly as possible, for the millionth time, all eyes are glazed over. I get the feeling that everyone suspects I'm full of it. Anyway, I log-on to the dumb box and read this thread. A Merry Christmas indeed!

Now I get to go do my job flying through the Holidays for 40k/yr and be dang thankful for it since so many of my buds are on the street. Bahh Humbug

Alaska people, please keep that pension going for new hires or an equivalent alternative that's outside of the company's hands.

Pool time, It's kinda like being furloughed.

Now that I've vented ,I must admit that I am thankful for what I have now and for what may come in the not too distant future.

Happy Holidays all. Keep hangin in there.

 

[FL510GV]

Thanks for the great replies...

AK737FO... good insight from the other side of the fence.

ratherfish... oh, that "glazed over look" when I explain that "yes I have a job, no I am not working, no I am not getting paid, yes, it actually was a year ago that I got hired."

I don't think that the pension is the "biggest" issue that the company has. Based on what I have seen, probably the "banked vacation"/other work rules are the sicky parts.

My point was that given a) no job and therefore a worthless pension, or b) a job and a worthless pension, I would obviously choose "b".

I have no choice, but to wait it out, and by the grace of God, I have a Reserve job that keeps me floating. There are others who would give their right eye to be in my shoes. I am grateful.

As I told my wife... the letter that said "optimistically, after the first of the year" meant "not before the end of this year, and anytime indefinately into the future after the first of the year." Who knows, they could theoretically call any day. All those retirements aren't going away, but the 2010 plan is quickly being downsized due to time passage.

Merry Christmas.


PS: I also want to say to the SWA poolies who are starting to see movement, Congratulations. I am living your purgatory of the past, in some cases, two years. Godspeed.

 

[Singlecoil]

You haven't missed out on a year of your highest earnings, rather you lost 1.9% of your average highest earnings.
The formula is:
Average pay of your best 60 consecutive months of your last 120 months, times 1.9%, times years and months of service.
The company is proposing to do away with that, and in its place give 6% to your B fund (401K). According to my analysis, it is impossible for the company to contribute enough to the B plan to equal what the A plan would be worth due to the limits imposed by the IRS on 401K contributions. If they got up above 14% or so however, I think it would be a good deal and would come close enough.