Alaska ANYONE

[Z_Pilot]

What exactly is a SWA wannabe?

Answer by av8instyle:

Can I take a guess??
....Someone that wants to be at SWA?

Ditto. Yes, someone that wants to be at SWA.

Why would ALK hire someone that wanted to be at SWA?

My point exactly!
That's why it is so screwed up!

Perhaps the SWA wannabees got the call from Alaska first, perhaps they did not get hired at SWA.

Z

 

[dashtrash]

fly-n-fish and old school 737, you guys must both be post kasher to be involving your friends in this place and if not then shame on both of you.....

It seems like now would be a good time for them to get their friends on there. Pay can only go up.

 

[tico]

It seems like now would be a good time for them to get their friends on there. Pay can only go up.

If that is what you believe then you must be very new to Horizon or you took a huge bong hit and still have the"Horizon High".....The smoke and mirror show is about to begin and you can be sure that regardless of what the numbers show.....The Airgroup's opener to us will provide us with less effective income annually than we now have. It is their intent to push the amount of guaranteed income that they have to pay(hourly, salary, retirement etc...) below the level that Kasher set and then add back in all kinds of bonuses, profit sharing, performance based pay etc.....to make it appear that if we all run out and bust our ass3es then we will be living the dream......unlike you guys at horizon where there are still horizon employees running the show, on the alaska side we are a virtual airline....so performance and profits are in the hands of a dozen sub contractors.....All we will hear (as we do now )is how we just missed the target for one reason or another........So yes it is a great time to get your friends on at alaska so they can get a little more experience and move on to a real airline....that would be one that has not repeated its first year of experience over 70 times

 

[av8instyle]

Tico,
We'll only get what we vote for.

 

[tico]

Tico,
We'll only get what we vote for.

That is true brother....and that must be why our union is being very direct and preparing us for a strike....You know, put life on hold for a couple years so that the next 20 get better....Sell the fancy house in Gig Harbor, Forgo that vacation, put the young ones back in public school, get the bills paid ahead six months to a year, get the family spooled for some ugliness.......Except wait...when I am in the crew room everyone is back to the usual bulllsh!t....look at pictures of my new house and my vacation and all that other sh!!t.....I am ready and waiting to take a baseball bat with a 24"x24" sign stapled to it out on the street and give this place the middle finger and get all I can get for as long as I can get it.....But are you..maybe, but you can d@mn sure bet that 50.1% of our pilot group is not and will fade in fear when they are facing the fire.... and we will end up choking on our own Sh!t until 2015 or beyond..........What says you to that!!!!!

 

[av8instyle]

Well, mine's pretty easy. I've got a guard job that pays more than the airline so I'm ready to walk tomorrow. Unfortunately for most it won't be that easy. I don't want to kill the goose...but we're WAAY below where we should fairly be.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Dude

Come on Shwing.,
Are you gonna get your Alaska Interview
Leavin' me in the dark are ya?

talk to me clyde.

 

[Old School 737]

As far as guys saying we can strike!!!!! I don't think it would even happen for many years after May 1st and I doubt that Ted Stevens would ever let it happen. And unfortunatly I think the company knows it.

But on another note I heard that Alaska's MEC had a major part in getting the new ALPA Pres elected!! And that can only be a good thing.

 

[AK737FO]

Uncle Ted

Uncle Ted is a factor if there were to ever be an Alaska strike. Don't think otherwise. The man is the king of pork, he has provided who knows how many gazillion dollars to the state. We are chump change to him. Doesn't matter anyhow - a strike would be years away. It is really not worth talking about.
I have always believed, the real power is with your pen and the throttles in the cockpit, not standing on the street holding a silly sign.
BRW, SCC, OTZ, OME, ADQ, PSG, WRG, SIT, DLG, BET, AKN, ADK, YAK, CDV with a pen and a problem = 100% more effect than the street with a sign.

 

[av8instyle]

Uncle Ted is a factor if there were to ever be an Alaska strike. Don't think otherwise. The man is the king of pork, he has provided who knows how many gazillion dollars to the state. We are chump change to him. Doesn't matter anyhow - a strike would be years away. It is really not worth talking about.
I have always believed, the real power is with your pen and the throttles in the cockpit, not standing on the street holding a silly sign.
BRW, SCC, OTZ, OME, ADQ, PSG, WRG, SIT, DLG, BET, AKN, ADK, YAK, CDV with a pen and a problem = 100% more effect than the street with a sign.

Except there are warmer places to have a problem, and better problem trips, ie in the middle of a 4-day. Not a turn. You only screw yourself.

 

[lumax]

Except there are warmer places to have a problem, and better problem trips, ie in the middle of a 4-day. Not a turn. You only screw yourself.

That does not help the cause. That is like continuing to taxi to the gate with carts or loaders in the safety zone because its your last leg of the trip and you want to catch the bus and go home.
If its broken, write it up, and yes hopefully it will happen in PSP rather than BRW. Its a small individual sacrifice we will all have to make in oder to get the message accross.

 

[tico]

As far as guys saying we can strike!!!!! I don't think it would even happen for many years after May 1st and I doubt that Ted Stevens would ever let it happen. And unfortunatly I think the company knows it.

But on another note I heard that Alaska's MEC had a major part in getting the new ALPA Pres elected!! And that can only be a good thing.

dont count on Ted stepping in on this one. He is very aware that Alaska Airlines is not and never has been an Alaska Corporation. And as far as the villages go, they are very strong union members and they know the value of a good paycheck.....

And my old friend AK....You must know that your beloved company is coming at you for more money in Jan. And they are going to tell you that through profit sharing, performance based pay and some honest hard work your W2 wage will be right where you want it.....In Alaska the airline may be run by employees with a vested interest in its well being but out in the rest of the world we are just a virtual airline and we will always fall just below that big payout threshold...... a full strike or extended chaos will be the only thing that gets us what we want and If I am wrong I will buy the beer for a year I give you my words so help me.......you get the point

 

[Hamburger]

I have always believed, the real power is with your pen and the throttles in the cockpit, not standing on the street holding a silly sign.
BRW, SCC, OTZ, OME, ADQ, PSG, WRG, SIT, DLG, BET, AKN, ADK, YAK, CDV with a pen and a problem = 100% more effect than the street with a sign.

I always love when Hard Core Union types seem to have overlooked the page that contains the Code of Ethics....
http://www.alpa.org/?tabid=270
Taking out your frustrations with management on your passengers is a real class move. These are people that have saved up all year to take the family to Disneyland or Hawaii and they just lost a day of their trip. Way to stick it to the Head Office.

You don't have to sit down and enjoy abuse. That is why there are established procedures for action (grievance, strike, etc....) They may take your pay and days off, but you're the only one that can give away your integrety and professionalism.

 

[dashtrash]

If that is what you believe then you must be very new to Horizon or you took a huge bong hit and still have the"Horizon High".....The smoke and mirror show is about to begin and you can be sure that regardless of what the numbers show.....The Airgroup's opener to us will provide us with less effective income annually than we now have. It is their intent to push the amount of guaranteed income that they have to pay(hourly, salary, retirement etc...) below the level that Kasher set and then add back in all kinds of bonuses, profit sharing, performance based pay etc.....to make it appear that if we all run out and bust our ass3es then we will be living the dream......unlike you guys at horizon where there are still horizon employees running the show, on the alaska side we are a virtual airline....so performance and profits are in the hands of a dozen sub contractors.....All we will hear (as we do now )is how we just missed the target for one reason or another........So yes it is a great time to get your friends on at alaska so they can get a little more experience and move on to a real airline....that would be one that has not repeated its first year of experience over 70 times

WTF? Way to get people on your side. You remind me of Geroge Bagley with that rant. Tell me more about our great middle management at Horizon. So what if they low ball you on the first offer. Does that mean you have to take it? Let your negotiators do the talking.

 

[akairman702]

I always love when Hard Core Union types seem to have overlooked the page that contains the Code of Ethics....
http://www.alpa.org/?tabid=270
Taking out your frustrations with management on your passengers is a real class move. These are people that have saved up all year to take the family to Disneyland or Hawaii and they just lost a day of their trip. Way to stick it to the Head Office.

You don't have to sit down and enjoy abuse. That is why there are established procedures for action (grievance, strike, etc....) They may take your pay and days off, but you're the only one that can give away your integrety and professionalism.

Are you on crack? Alaska has never had an ontime airline. 98% of us know this because we see it every day. It is a massively 'pilot intensive' operation, largely due to penny pinching (read, Menzies), a comically inefficient organizational structure and a revolving door of middle managers who are perpetually reinventing the wheel. As for me, I don't feel like I'm 'giving away my integrity and professionalism' by not calling ops about catering for the fourth time. The fact that we were at one time fairly compensated for orchestrating this goat rodeo is the only thing that ever made it remotely bearable in the first place.

And you're playing right into their hands with the 'integrity' bullsh*t. Their intent is to hire pushovers who will feel guilty for not helping them prop this mountain up on matchsticks even after a 34% paycut. Most of us caught on after being on reserve for a few months, or for those of us who were really optimistic up until the most recent contract negotiations, or for the rest of the idiots, like myself, up until the Kasher award.

But apparently, incomprehensibly, there are still a few left.

A lot of kids are in daycare because mom's are working as a result of this you know. Huge personal sacrifices have been made and a lot of marriages and families strained as a result. And for what, RECORD profits?? Where's the integrity in that? Where's the integrity in the blatant contract violations that management willfully and deliberately repeat day after day knowing that they are making $ on it during the process regardless of who is getting hosed? Do you know what makes this stop? Do you think that it's good will? Please don't tell me you believe that cooperation (read, concession) is the key.

Let me fill you in. Airline managers react to financial incentives. It's an equation, my friend. If the numbers add up in their favor, regardless of how loud the noise (read, pilot bitching) is, the abuse will continue and in the absence of compelling motivation the status quo will prevail. It's as simple as that.

Is your family worth making it stop? Is mine? Please tell me that getting Johnny Vacation and his family to Disneyland on time, every time by jumping through the thousand hoops known as the Alaska Airlines Organizational Mess and carrying write ups isn't more important to you than following the rules, being safe and doing what you were hired to do and only that in the name of your self respect, your families security and your professional well being.

If that isn't an easy choice for any of us, we are truly are a lost cause.

O.K. Edge, play the blues...

 

[AKMD80GUY]

Nice post AK. I couldn't have said it better myself. I am not a hard core union guy as I believe most of the pilots at AS are not as well. The thing that people outside of an AS cockpit dont understand is that you can only get f^*%@d so many times and put up with the contract violations, Mezies etc... without fighting back and I believe we are at that time. I will do whatever necessary to get back what I believe I should be compensated to work for Alaska Airlines.

 

[Hamburger]

Before we get all tied up in a wad, All I am addressing is grounding planes at an outstation to make a point to management. I mentioned nothing about calling Catering or Ops. It was clear this was being proffered as a labor tactic that had nothing to do with safety. This is an act that destroys the travel plans of the very people we are in the business of moving around. Only the thickest of skulls can't grasp that this ultimately hurts every employee.

If things are that bad, then STRIKE. Stick it to them in the pocketbook OFFICIALLY. Bogus writing up of planes at an outstation screws nobody but your passengers, and it screws them HARD. The passengers are the reason you get any paycheck at all. Remember back in 00-01 when UAL were grounding planes right and left? Chased off a lot of customers, but really showed management what for.......Oh, wait a minute, they still went bankrupt and furlouged. I once again urge you to actually read the code of ethics.
As I said before, if you are unhappy, there are means to deal with your problems that offer your pax an opportunity to have some warning and make arrangements. If your parents didn't make it to your wedding becuase the pilots at the airline they bought tickets on wrote up a plane at an outstation to make a point to management, would tell your parents that "they were on crack" when they got upset?

If you vote to let some some Stooge appointed by a management-friendly administration decide your fate through arbitration, you most likely won't be happy. If you vote to STRIKE, at least you have a hand in your fate. I'm not some head office lackey. I'm just a guy that actually believes that putting my passsengers in the middle of my labor issues is flat wrong. I don't think they are a bargaining chip or pawns, there are other ways to make your voice heard.
Taking a big pay cut sucks hard, to be sure. Myself and thousands of others have actually been put on the street with Nothing (100% pay cut) due to management ineptetude. Never once did it cross my mind to punish my passengers for my loss of paycheck.

If you refuse to hold yourself to the ALPA contract standards outlined in the Code of Ethics, you cannot possibly find fault with management for not holding themselves to their end of the CBA. Don't sink to their level. Hold yourself to a higher standard.

Would you write up a plane (that you wouldn't have five years ago) if YOUR parents were on board to go to Hawaii to celebrate their 50th anniversary? You might not know them personally; but somebody's parents, wives, children, etc... are on every plane that gets 'grounded' during negotiations.

P.S. I refuse to subscribe to your opinion that Integrity is bull********************.

 

[mach none]

We cannot strike now without being released into self help. To do other wise is an illegal job action. If the plane is broken, write it up. We are #1 in safety and compliance...right? Don't carry a jet, that doesn't benefit anyone. For you to suggest other wise is foolish and jeopardizing our lives. Remeber the culture before 261?
To vote for a strike right now is pointless. We have not even kicked the ball off yet. A strike could be used against us in mediation. It would show we are bargaining in bad faith.
We all must find that balance between union activism and the company. Right now the scales must be tilted toward the union, without alienating the public.

 

[ReverseSensing]

If things are that bad, then STRIKE. Stick it to them in the pocketbook OFFICIALLY. Bogus writing up of planes at an outstation screws nobody but your passengers, and it screws them HARD.

I'm not quite following your logic here. It IS okay to screw the pax when striking, but NOT okay to "screw" them by recording a possible airworthiness discrepancy in the maintenace log, unless at a MX base?

This is your idea of professional ethics?

I don't remember the FAA telling pilots we get to decide which maintenance discrepancies can be ignored and which must be recorded.

You can call it a "labor tactic" if you want, but the culture of tacitly encouraging pilots NOT to write things up when the schedule/reliability would be impacted is, without a doubt, a management tactic, and illegal to boot.

You apparently would prefer to follow your ethical code; me, when it's my call, I'll follow the law.

 

[av8instyle]

And out of 4 legs a day how many of them could you find legitimate write ups? You and I both know the answer is 4. You can take your code of ethics babble elsewhere. Everyone knows that we, as pilots, could ground the entire fleet LEGALLY AND LEGITIMATELY in 24 hours. It's a machine, lots of moving parts, lowest bidder, things break.