AirTran's training house

[Critter717]

They need to get rid of the Medicare bridge program. Doug Powell has a massive ego. This will only get worse.

What's wrong with a plain vanilla recurrent check? Dick Unger and and the recently retired Jeff Sewell had it down. Honest, straight shooters, no head games...and FAIR!

It should be training instead of evaluate and fail.

 

[md83drvr]

This one time, at band camp...

The training dept does not train, they evaluate. Most guys there have a vast amount of knowledge, just the way it is presented is less than ideal.

Most orals/rides are just to prove the instructors know more than the individual(s) taking the ride.

We have been very lucky with some recent events, eventually our luck is going to run out. The automation and absurd amount of callouts will not save an a/c. Unfortunately we do not train pilots to fly the 717/37, we only train how to manage the automation. What will happen when that automation fails?

While there are problems with certain instructors/check airmen there is a deeper problem with the culture at the airline.

 

[labatt]

MD83,

You just hit the nail on the head. Best AAI post I have read anywhere. I think the boys in the training department are starting to figure out exactly what you mention. What they'll do about it, who knows? Probably nothing unfortunately.

 

[easydoesit]

I had a buddy who busted his checkride a few days before my ride(new hire). It was with Door #3 above. When I went into take my ride with the same guy, I was told about how my buddy was an "idiot" and about all the mistakes he made. He did not know I had been friends with the guy for years. I kept my mouth shut although it was very hard to do.

These guys have to go. They teach and check so old school, I feel like I am getting trained by my great grandpa, and I'm no spring chicken...

 

[Max Powers]

Easydoes it I had same experience.......The thing is this poor guy had an instructor that berated him at every mistake and completely shot his confidence which in turn killed his performance anyways I got an earful about how he was a complete idiot when the opposite is the case. I kept my mouth shut and regret it somewhat.

I guess it is more important that we remember "monitor radar display" and that there is a blue dot at 10 and 2 o'clock and yellow red at 8 and 4 o'clock for a tcas test etc etc than actual know how to fly and understand the QRH.

 

[AppBrookie]

You guys are posting my sentiments exactly for the last few years.
This is my 5th uniform in the closet and 5 types and I have never seen anything like this place.

At a couple of my previous companies(major and regional) we would do a PC then 6 months later a PT LOFT then repeat. I most especially liked the LOFTs, what a great LEARNING tool... scenarios that really make you think, CRM, etc..
I asked a Sim Check Airman why we don't do it this way at da tran explaining the above. His answer:
"You do ONE loft after initial training, you do not need it again, we are here to evaluate not for learning" That sums it up guys!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a little bit of check airman experience at a regional, our Dir. of Training(great guy) once told us in a meeting: Treat our line pilots like they are your customers and you are the owner of the business.....Respect
Some of the training folks are so stuck in the 50's mentality that they could never fathom this and I'm not necessarily talking about the older ones.

 

[SoCentralRain]

What? They aren't supposed to yell and scream. I thought everyone trained like that.

Must have been a Laker. Us GLA alums know all about this.

Kinda too bad. But when we got past these jagnuts, we did know our stuff.

That said, it doesn't have to be this way. Sorry to hear that's how da Tranny "trains."

SCR

 

[labatt]

Must have been a Laker. Us GLA alums know all about this.

Kinda too bad. But when we got past these jagnuts, we did know our stuff.

That said, it doesn't have to be this way. Sorry to hear that's how da Tranny "trains."

SCR

I was kidding of course, but yea....I was a Laker. I miss those days training when it was 100' and a 1/4 at 0400 in the old ott 2. You are right as well that we knew our stuff and were pretty good sticks.

 

[airline#5]

When it comes to training there is way too much talk about "...and that is how stupid this guy was." I don't believe that with this or any other pilot group I've known. Unfortunately, these story's make there way to the cockpit. If you're paired with someone who likes to spread this crap, don't trust he who revels in ones supposed shortcomings.

 

[Pancho]

Many of us have encouraged the union to help the company fix the schoolhouse problems with some very specific language in the new ta and with a training committee that actually has some fangs. I suspected we were completely ignored and had confirmation when the ta came out, only saying that the old-timers were now a protected class of citizen. In a previous life we had excellent language in our contract that dictated specifically who could train/check and what the training/checking guys could and could not get away with. This led to a very low stress learning environment that in turn led to an extremely safe operating environment. Seemingly, most important of all to this management team it kept our training costs low. I would love to know what all of the games being played at the school house really cost the company. I suspect our management either has no idea or enjoys the heavy hand these guys wield. The easiest way to control a pilot group is through the training dept. AP being old Eastern himself has no understanding about the threats and intimidation the rest of us non-Eastern line swine endure at the school house. I am tired of hearing about how all of these foqa (sp?) events are the result of incompetent pilots that the company hired back in the bad old days. Almost anybody can be trained to proficiency, but this of course requires somebody to actually train. When I look at our union committee roster and see an age 60 committee and no training committee it sums up our unions' priority's nicely.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

well it sounds like we will be cleaning house in our union pretty soon. Hopefully whoever steps up will put in end to the (BECAUSE THATS THE WAY WE DID IT AT EASTERN, GROUP). Must of been a great place to work.
I heard one instructor is so old that he drools on himself during TRN. NICE!!!

 

[Av8tor]

intimidate......evaluate is the motto at the training center!

 

[Captzaahlie]

Hell you guys are scaring me!
I just interviewed down there today and I've got this to look forward to ........?
Beat me, whip me, make me write bad checks, hell it will be no different than being in trouble with the Mrs.
Guess I'll just have to study that much harder!

BTW- Great bunch of interviewers down there. Much thanks to Coach, Rich and Lindsey for making us all feel real welcome! Great experience whatever the out come....

 

[PCL_128]

Hell you guys are scaring me!
I just interviewed down there today and I've got this to look forward to ........?

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've heard all the same stories, but I didn't experience any of it during training. Yeah, one instructor I had talked a lot about how things were at EAL, but that doesn't really bother me. He still got the instruction done, and I heard some interesting stories. The checkairman was more than fair. I'm sure there's a few guys in the department that fit the descriptions above, but I never ran into them, so you're chances of getting them are probably pretty low. Just relax, study, and you'll be fine.

 

[labatt]

Capt Z,

Congrats on the interview. It's really not that bad. All of the instructors are great and you won't have any trouble. If anyone needs a little help they go out of their way. It's still a little old school but has improved light years. Like some guys have said, a lot of checking and not so much training after initial.

New hire pass rates are probably 99% and the upgrades at least 90%. Just like anywhere, be prepared and have a good attitude. See you on the line.