AirTran vs. ATA

[Sensei]

If you were given the opportunity to work for either AirTran or ATA which would you choose? I'm hoping to fly something pretty (as opposed to grey) very shortly, it's just a matter of what color. I know I'd be happy at either company. I'm just trying to get a little more insight from those who have gone before.

Thanks.

 

[Newjetjockey]

Both companies are good places to work. Atlanta vs Chicago is a factor.

ATA
Nice big airplanes = Bigger paycheck.

Airtran
More growth = Quicker upgrade/seniority.
Stronger financially (right now). Less competition with other LCCs

I'd take the first one to offer you a job. Don't know which has hotter flight attendants but I would guess ATA.

 

[EMBATP]

i have had an ATA app for about 6 months without filling it out. i was/am a little concerned about their financial problems, though they seem to be working them out.

i really want airtran for the quick upgrade and to stay in the south. but if i knew that ATA was the only place i could go, i would be cool with that.

for f/a's a friend at Airtran said a lot of girls are from florida so form your own opinion!!!

 

[avoidingmyboss]

I'd take the first one to offer you a job. Don't know which has hotter flight attendants but I would guess ATA.

I only have limited experience with FA's but ATA’s FA’s seem to be a little more lady like. I had an overnight way back when and partied with a bunch of them. Not bad looking but then again I have limited experience and have not been able to see Airtran’s FA’s up close. They may be good from far and far from good.

 

[flyhard]

Airtran and ATA are two very different airlines. Yes the pay is better at ATA. Some other things you have to look at is quality of life.

At ATA we have a twelve hour callout with 12 days off a month. If you want to do short call, two hours, 14 days off a month. I have a whole eight months seniority and bid for long call reserve. I pick up trips on my days off and usually get around 95 hours pay and 15 to 20 days at home, even commuting. I have a buddy at Airtran that does the airport reserve, so you get to hang out at the airport all day.

The type of flying is much different too. For instance in the 757 at ATA you could do international or domestic. The L10 does mostly international and the 737 does mostly domestic. Airtran is domestic only for the time being.

Financially sound, and airline should not be used in the same sentence. Yes Airtran is doing well for the time being, but still is a realtively young airline. At ATA we have completed our bond refinancing, so financially we are in better shape than we were. We have been around for over thirty years and there is a reason for that. Our management is conservative on each move they make. They will not enter a market unless money can be made. Airtran is growing at an extremely fast pace, which can be good and bad.

Hope this helps on the ATA side of things.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Uma, Oprah....Oprah, Uma

Not mention those that think ATA is Airtran.


I would base this decision on location. IMHO, Airtan is entering a growth phase that is great for upgrades, but has risk. ATA undertook growth and is starting to overcome the problems that arose from that risk.

Airtran may come out of its growth looking better or worse financially. We just don't know yet. To be fair Airtran is entering this growth phase in better financial shape than ATA did.

ATA is currently not in as good a financial position as Airtran. Based on present day financials, Airtran looks more secure.

 

[Ty Webb]

I like ATA, too. If I wasn't at AirTran, ATA would certianly have my app on file, along with JBlu, Frontier, AWA etc. Some of the points you brought up need a little clarifying, though:

Very true. You ATA guys got a good contract. I have heard it will be one of the "peers" for comparison when we do our next contract in 2005. One thing worth mentioning is that if ATA continues to lose money, they may come back to your guys for "give backs" . . . sure hope not.

At ATA we have a twelve hour callout with 12 days off a month. If you want to do short call, two hours, 14 days off a month.


We have 12 hour LCR too, but Company hasn't chosen to use it. Our min days off for lineholders is 12, too.

I have a whole eight months seniority and bid for long call reserve. I pick up trips on my days off and usually get around 95 hours pay and 15 to 20 days at home, even commuting.

I'm not sure it's really fair to count reserve days as "days off", but sounds like it's been working well for you.

I, too, was very lucky . . . By my 8th month or so, I had commutable lines with 16-17 days off (avg 84 hours pay). I never did reserve, but the guys who were in the last class (8/2003) have been stuck on reserve until hiring begins again next month.

I have a buddy at Airtran that does the airport reserve, so you get to hang out at the airport all day.

"Ready Reserve" is usually something people request at their convenience, because they will be free after 6 hours of RR . . . . for example, on the last day of reserve, for a commuter.

Yes Airtran is doing well for the time being, but still is a realtively young airline. At ATA we have completed our bond refinancing, so financially we are in better shape than we were.

I don't think you can make a real comparison here. AirTran has made a profit every quarter except the first one (since 9/11) while growing a 20%, reducing debt and increasing cash (over $300 million right now). In ther words, we've been making money, I don't ATA has figured out how to do that in this new environment just yet.


We have been around for over thirty years and there is a reason for that. Our management is conservative on each move they make. They will not enter a market unless money can be made.

Look for us to further reduce costs now that the DC9s are all gone and the 737-700 start bringing down our CASM further due to the longer stage lengths. We will probably not be adding cities in 2004, but will be connecting the 45 we have with more directs and non-stops.

Good Luck to All.

 

[DCitrus9]

"Ready Reserve is usually something people request at their convenience, because they will be free after 6 hours of RR . . . . for example, on the last day of reserve, for a commuter."

Are you smoking crack, Ty?
I have "enjoyed" reserve for two years, and have NEVER heard of one person requesting RR. In fact, it is a source of great frustration for almost every reserve b!tch. They often try to circumvent the early release clause by assigning RR. This is not allowed, but people who don't read the contract don't realize this.

 

[Ty Webb]

If you know the contract, then RR can be used to your benefit.

After IOE but before the next bid, I used to use it to get home early on the last day of reserve . . . so it was something I requested because it worked for me.

 

[UM#1]

Very true. You ATA guys got a good contract. I have heard it will be one of the "peers" for comparison when we do our next contract in 2005. One thing worth mentioning is that if ATA continues to lose money, they may come back to your guys for "give backs" . . . sure hope not.

[/B]

Good post Ty, just wanted to say a thing about this part, we Are Not losing money as you stated, we made 15mil in 2003 and we still have the lowest CASM in the industry (besides JBLU). Even with the new higher payrates on the new contract the CASM has been going down. Please don't start a rumor that we are losing money and that the pilots may have to giveback, both are untrue....

ALL in all both are great companies with good futures and good people....

 

[Ty Webb]

You're right- you guys did show a small profit for 2003. I stand corrected.

 

[Pickle]

Which is it???

Ty Webb said: "I never did reserve,"

Then Ty Webb said: "I used to use it to get home early on the last day of reserve"

You did or did not do reserve??

Also, Ty Webb said: "One thing worth mentioning is that if ATA continues to lose money, they may come back to your guys for "give backs" . . . sure hope not."

Geez, you sound like General Lee on that one.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: Which is it???

I would think the answer is pretty obvious. When I finished IOE there were a few weeks left in the month. I was therefore on reserve until the next month started.

 

[Pickle]

Ty WEbb:

It would have been more clear had you said "I never had a reserve line". But what you said was that you never did reserve, then you said you did do reserve. Granted, you did have the caveat about IOE, but nobody actually reads what you type anyway, so you can't blame people for not getting your point.

 

[Ty Webb]

And your post would have been more clear if you just admitted that you're an idiot and you have a comprehension problem. . . . . but I can read between the lines.



Have a nice day. . . . . somewhere else.

 

[Pickle]

Man, you are a pr1ck. go have a nice day somewhere else don't ever say anything that is contrary to what I say whaaaaaaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaaa
I feel better now.

 

[meanstreak]

I don't care what anyone says but Ready Reserve Sucks. Reserve at Airtran is actually no better than most commuters. Don't get me wrong this is a great place to work I just wish the quality of life was better on reserve. I'm not going to go on for hours about our work rules I just hope there are improvements in the next contract.

 

[flyhard]

Ty Webb,

Great replies. It is obvious that you were hired at Airtran before they actually started screening pilots. It is too bad that such a great pilot group has someone like you representing them.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My mailbox runs pretty steady 75% in favor of my posts, as it has since I started posting here in 1997.

If you don't like my posts, don't read 'em.

 

[FLB717]

OK, every one take a step back from the keyboard and inhale deeply, hold it, hold it. Now exhale, gooodd. Please now resume in a honoarable manor.