Airtran upgraded on consolidation outlook with Southwest

[Whataburger]

That last paragraph is the exact reason to not merge with FL. SWA or anyone else would have to pay too much to dance. While FL would offer some routes to cities that SWA doesn't serve, there is little high rev. international flying, and lots and lots of route duplication. Not to mention the B717's. A dead airplane with limited capability as compared to other airframes out there.

Now if FL starts to lose money and gets close to BK, then watch out. There might even be a bidding war.

Regarding 717s. AirTran has tons of options for 737s. Should something like a merger happen I believe the outcome would be an all 737 fleet.

 

[Irishav8r]

I thought upgrades were running 5-7 years at SW, why would someone still be an FO at nine years - unless it is by choice. If it is by choice then that person is hanging it out there and may get "caught with their shorts down" when/if consolidation begins. That's what our bypassing FO's have to think about every time they bypass CA upgrade for quality of life. It is a tough call and should not be taken lightly in this volatile period of time.

That was until age 65 and growth reductions....10-12 yrs is the projection now.

 

[Irishav8r]

Well 10-12 yrs is what I saw as the projection, that is.....2019 hired in 07

 

[50Pesos]

Sounds like this guy doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

If he doesn't even know where SWA is based, why would anyone pay any attention to anything he says about the industry?

OHHHH the irony, the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[HalinTexas]

Regarding 717s. AirTran has tons of options for 737s. Should something like a merger happen I believe the outcome would be an all 737 fleet.

Well then you just added two more reasons not to merge.

Are WN's "options" cheaper than FL's?

Making a merged WN/FL all-B737 fleet isn't cheap. Probably more expensive to dump the B717 than keeping them.

 

[Reebo]

I know you think I'm crazy but I predict next week SWA will announce the purchase of a scaled down ATA Airlines and future plans for an agressive International expansion in Q4 of this year.

No specifics at this time but that's my opinion and some others closer to the money trail.

I don't think you're crazy at all.

Your scenario makes the most sense. ATA has been cut to the bone for easy digestion. They bring with them ETOPS certification and extensive International experience. I don't think this was the plan when WN and ATA began the code share, but the market has changed and it becomes a win/win for WN and the Global logistics group.

 

[airlinepilot]

Jr Capt at Airtran vs Junior at SWA

Junior Capt at Airtran had 3 yrs on the property in Jan 2008, Junior Capt at SWA will have 8 years on property in June of this year.

 

[radarlove]

I thought upgrades were running 5-7 years at SW, why would someone still be an FO at nine years - unless it is by choice. If it is by choice then that person is hanging it out there and may get "caught with their shorts down" when/if consolidation begins. That's what our bypassing FO's have to think about every time they bypass CA upgrade for quality of life. It is a tough call and should not be taken lightly in this volatile period of time.

Ok, sorry. I meant, "Uh huh. Three year Airtran captains paired with seven year SWA f.o.s? I don't see that working out."

 

[HalinTexas]

Jr. CA at ATA is 11 years and 1 month...

 

[AFcitrus]

Ok, sorry. I meant, "Uh huh. Three year Airtran captains paired with seven year SWA f.o.s? I don't see that working out."

Who knows? There would most certainly be fences for many years to protect everyone's QOL.

I think the point is that these mergers are going to happen if they make sense from a business standpoint - regardless of whether the pilots work out pre-agreements or not. It seems that is what Delta/NW are starting to say now.

The new legislation forces pilots (from different unions) whose companies merge to work it out fairly and equitably or face "binding arbitration" for senority integration. The binding arbitration must be "fair and equitable to both sides" thereby eliminating any chance of a landslide one way or the other. I, for one, am glad this happened because none of us knows which side of a merger we may end up on someday. Airtran had no intention of stapling Midwest pilots (or requiring them to interview for their jobs). In turn, Airtran pilots won't have to worry about being stapled or having to interview.

Someday, as mighty as some SW pilots seems to think they are, they too may find themselves on the shorter end of the merger stick but they will be protected from a one-sided integration just the same.

It's a beautiful thing. So let's just sit back, relax, and try to enjoy the ride since in the end we really have little say in what will or won't happen.

Happy Flying!

 

[Citrus531]

Well then you just added two more reasons not to merge.

Are WN's "options" cheaper than FL's?

Making a merged WN/FL all-B737 fleet isn't cheap. Probably more expensive to dump the B717 than keeping them.

Yeah where would 87 717's go? Not like anybody would be beating down the door to pick them up I would think?!?

 

[PCL_128]

Ok, sorry. I meant, "Uh huh. Three year Airtran captains paired with seven year SWA f.o.s? I don't see that working out."

You may not "see it," but no arbitrator will issue an SLI award that requires the downgrading of one group's Captains to allow the other group's FOs to upgrade. Just won't happen.

 

[critterair2]

Maybe I'm the crazy one, ANYTHING SWA has planned hasn't been leaked outside of the big D! MY OPINION, all the SWA/Citrus talk is just swa's way to put pressure on Delta, forcing them to play their hand. SWA will be after Frontier or Spirit.

 

[airlinepilot]

Frontier????

I was at the HQ and we had our little informal discussion with the director of training....he specifically said you can would rule out Frontier because they only have about 90 days cash on-hand. "Why pay for something when you can pick up the pieces for hardly nothing". As far as SL between Airtran and SWA. If you used DOH, the majority of the Airtran guys would be back in the right seat. They would probably be pay protected. Which in the eyes of the law is fair and reasonable. Law suits from two previous takeovers lost due to the fact the pilots didn't suffer any economic loss. The judge didn't seen to care if their ego was hurt by not being in the left seat.

 

[MTV]

Yeah where would 87 717's go? Not like anybody would be beating down the door to pick them up I would think?!?

A few years ago the 717 was going to save ATA, everyone was going to be a captain. They could not fill the 737 800 and the 717 was a perfect fit. That was the company line anyway.